Page 13 | The Lady Hussey racism thing

Shelefttheweb · 01/12/2022 12:21

It doesn't matter if NF was being deliberately obtuse. The responsibility isn't on her to make the conversation flow.

In every conversation there is a responsibility on both parties to make the conversation flow. Even more so it you are representing an organisation and wish to put its aims across. Otherwise you shouldn’t be there.

KvotheTheBloodless · 01/12/2022 12:21

CloudBusted · 01/12/2022 11:17

There were several things that make this VERY different to your experience;

white people haven’t been bought and sold by the aristocracy as slaves in recent history. Mistreated. Treated as sub- human. Etc etc. so already the historical backdrop is completely different.
As a white person you have been privileged without even knowing it. You haven’t had to face the implicit and explicit racism that people of colour experience daily.
She clearly felt felt superior enough and within her rights to touch her hair and move it out of the way like she was some kind of commodity (with the historical back drop in mind you can see just how horrifying that is surely?).
Because of the colour of her skin and her appearance she then went on to insist that she was not British and interrogated her about this. I think this woman was perfectly capable of knowing and articulating her own identity. Such arrogance and clearly racist. She wouldn’t have treated a whole person in that way. Someone whose parents were originally from Sweden for example. White skin and British accent - she would have accepted her first answer. Probably wouldn’t have been asked. British accent and brown skin - she was asked and then further interrogated.

I am sure that there are other differences that I’ve missed but that what comes immediately to mind.

This! Spot on.

knittingaddict · 01/12/2022 12:21

Eightiesgirl · 01/12/2022 12:12

This woman is 85, what she said was racist and totally unacceptable but, due to her age, I don't think she should have been publicly humiliated as she has been. I've had similar comments about my appearance made to me. If it's an elderly person I completely ignore them and their outdated views. I don't know if they are starting with dementia, or are confused, had too many sherries etc. If it's someone younger of course I would outright accuse them of racism and make a complaint. However, if it was an elderly person, I'd just blank them and walk away. Lots of people have an elderly relative with outdated views or who puts their foot in it and we cringe but we don't want to see them publicly humiliated. She's not going to be around much longer and I certainly don't think she represents the views of King Charles and the other members of the Royal family, that's obvious by the way she's been got rid of so quickly.

I think that whole post is pretty ageist actually. I'm getting on a bit now. Do I get a free pass if I start saying offensive things to people? When does that happen? I need to know.

My parents showed racism in their old age. I don't think they became racist, it just never came up until the demographics where they lived changed. Fortunately for everyone they didn't have a public role that would get them reported in the press.

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 12:21

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 01/12/2022 12:18

I agree OP, enough with the faux naiveté, everybody understands the « where are you from Q » no need to pretend it is purely about citizenship and play dumb when answering.

I have been living in the UK for 10y+ and in the process of getting citizenship, I have a strong accent from my home country, and a very foreign last name from another country.
When someone asks where I am from I am happy that they are interested, and even after becoming British why would I pretend I don’t understand the question is about my accent / name?

Let me guess… you’re white.

Yourwan · 01/12/2022 12:21

AndEverWhoKnew · 01/12/2022 12:16

It doesn't matter if NF was being deliberately obtuse. The responsibility isn't on her to make the conversation flow.
My DH often heads off questions about his heritage in the exact same way. Is he being deliberately obtuse? Yy because he doesn't want his heritage to be the focus of the conversation. Are there other times when he will openly discuss his heritage? Yy. Both approaches are valid. It's entirely up to him.
It is always on the person asking the questions to read the cues.

Haha, she definitely wasn't making the conversation flow that's for sure. It must have been proper awkward with NF being deliberately obtuse, why the royal person didn't pick up the hostile vibes is beyond me.

AndEverWhoKnew · 01/12/2022 12:21

It is a shame that an event about VAWG has been completely overshadowed by this. It's good that NF is getting the opportunity to try to bring the focus back to her work in interviews today but it's still a missed opportunity for the others who attended.

Loki01 · 01/12/2022 12:22

Readinginthesun · 01/12/2022 12:12

It’s not a transcript, it’s Ngozi’s recollection .

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And is your reason for doubting it? Noone came to correct that.

I am white but not originally from the UK and I am often asked where I am "really" from.
The word "really" offends me, because I am from the UK and have been for 20 years. I don't mind being asked where I am originally from.
This was a ridiculous questioning and way more hurtful as this woman was actually born here.

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 12:22

Shelefttheweb · 01/12/2022 12:21

It doesn't matter if NF was being deliberately obtuse. The responsibility isn't on her to make the conversation flow.

In every conversation there is a responsibility on both parties to make the conversation flow. Even more so it you are representing an organisation and wish to put its aims across. Otherwise you shouldn’t be there.

Except she was trying to talk about her organisation. Hussey wouldn’t let her.

lap90 · 01/12/2022 12:22

There's already a thread on this.
She wasn't just asked where she was from.

MaryMollyPolly · 01/12/2022 12:23

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 01/12/2022 12:18

I agree OP, enough with the faux naiveté, everybody understands the « where are you from Q » no need to pretend it is purely about citizenship and play dumb when answering.

I have been living in the UK for 10y+ and in the process of getting citizenship, I have a strong accent from my home country, and a very foreign last name from another country.
When someone asks where I am from I am happy that they are interested, and even after becoming British why would I pretend I don’t understand the question is about my accent / name?

Eh? But she doesn’t have a foreign accent! She’s a Londoner.

TheLeadbetterLife · 01/12/2022 12:23

Sitdowncupoftea · 01/12/2022 12:14

We have only heard one side of the story. This Lady has been within the Royal Household years. She will know how to conduct herself at these functions and events. She will have had lessons on how to greet and behave. Sorry I don't believe the accusations.

Just like Prince Phillip, eh?

TheSnootiestFox · 01/12/2022 12:23

NellesVilla · 01/12/2022 11:16

The whole thing is so overdramatic and blown out of proportion.

White person dares to ask a black person where she is originally from. White person is racist- “yes, let’s use that narrative and destroy white person’s life whilst making a heroine of black person”.

This. Exactly this. Racism, as I understand it, is a person of one race thinking that another person is inferior because they are from a different race. So had SH said, 'Don't be stupid, you can't be from Hackney. Aren't black people stupid?' then that would be appalling and racist. I've been asked 'where the hell are you from?' as a white woman getting on a bus in the US, because as soon as I opened my mouth the driver was curious. Was I offended? Not in the least.

An old lady checking she'd understood correctly by repeating a question that she didn't get the expected answer to, is not racist and whoever she was that was offended needs to grow the fuck up. Exactly the same as the whole Meghan's baby debacle, my dad was born in 1919 and that's exactly the type of question he'd have asked me if I'd have married a black bloke. Not in the context of racism, but because he would have been genuinely curious as to what his grandchildren would look like. Honestly, if you want to be treated equally as a person of colour, then stop playing the race card every time someone old and possibly vulnerable opens their mouth.

LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee · 01/12/2022 12:24

foggydaysun · 01/12/2022 12:18

I agree in part.

Though to be honest, asking where are you from to a person of color IS offensive. Especially if they have a British accent. If they clearly have a non- British accent, ok. But if they have a British accent why on earth wouldn’t you assume they are British?! It’s othering people of color, making it clear that you don’t see them as belonging here in the way white people do.

I bet you never had a Japanese accent in Japan OP.

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Cross posted: interesting point but what about the following, my DC were born here so no accent. However there are clues that they have a French heritage, the way they dress, they punctuate sentences by « oh la la » and one of them has an « é » character in their first name.

What I am saying is that there are clues usually, not just absence/presence of accent, skin colour etc.

stuntbubbles · 01/12/2022 12:24

Yourwan · 01/12/2022 12:21

Haha, she definitely wasn't making the conversation flow that's for sure. It must have been proper awkward with NF being deliberately obtuse, why the royal person didn't pick up the hostile vibes is beyond me.

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Who had “calling a Black woman ‘hostile’” on their racism bingo card for this thread? Almost full now.

Blueisthecolour1 · 01/12/2022 12:25

Yeah she was racist. She singled out a Black woman, and audaciously moved her hair out the way (smacks of arrogance - you might do this to a toddler to see their name-sticker but not to a bloody grown woman you've never met before at a formal meet & greet FFS) and then repeatedly asked her where she was from. Where her "people" were from. How effing rude! And absolutely, downright racist

Squeezita · 01/12/2022 12:25

A spokesman for the Prince of Wales said he believes "the course of action taken is correct".

Prince William clearly knows his Godmother very well.

PetraBP · 01/12/2022 12:25

Two minds about this.

Someone with a public role should be aware of current issues and sensitivities (regardless of their age), especially if in a privileged position.
Elderly lady with a genuine curiosity about someone’s origin due to their African surname gets hounded out and sacrificed on the altar of political correctness because someone with an agenda claimed to be offended, sorry, “traumatised”.

LaMigraine · 01/12/2022 12:25

Tiiiiiiiiiiired · 01/12/2022 10:58

I am really conflicted about this.

If went to live in Japan (I did live there for 3 years several years ago) I would be expected to be asked about where I'm from because I don't look Japanese (and in fact I was asked many times! I didn't mind at all, it was my choice to be in Japan and I knew I didn't look japanese). If I chose to stay in that country and have children, I'd expect my children would be asked the same, and their children and that although they would be Japanese by birth, I would hope they would be happy to talk about their heritage and where they are from and not mind being asked why they don't look Japanese and what the history is. I wouldnt think it racist and wouldn't want such questions to be stopped because we only learn from others, and about others, by talking and feeling safe to ask questions.

So why in the UK does everyone have to be sooo careful with what they say? This woman has a non English name, was wearing some non western clothing, as was asked about her heritage. Why is this abuse?

We need to stop being so sensitive and allow dialogue.

I haven't RTFT so apologies if I'm repeating something someone else has already said, but I think the crucial part of OP's post is 'If I moved to Japan...' Well, if Ngozi Fulani moved to Japan, and was asked where she was from, she may well not be offended either, for the reasons you and others have mentioned – that the non-Japanese population is small, and there's a good chance that those people weren't born there. The whole point is that she was asked this question – over and over, despite already having given the answer – in her own country, the country where she was born and has (presumably) always lived, in a city that is not at all homogenous in its population.

How about if you were a white redhead born in Italy, and someone persistently asked where you were from because of your hair colour, the implication being that you weren't 'really' Italian because Italian redheads are rare. If they kept on and on insisting that you must be Irish or Scottish or anything other than Italian, it would be annoying, and perhaps offensive, no? It's not a perfect comparison, I admit, but it's a truer one than you've given.

And let's not forget that crucially, you're also ignoring the fact that Lady Hussey's line of questioning is not original but something that Black people have been hearing since forever, so that in itself carries an exhausting, exasperating weight, too.

MsMarch · 01/12/2022 12:26

If I was Ms Kulani, I'd have been in shock that she pulled my hair aside to see my name badge. Even if I'd wanted to be "polite" and gently correct or steer the conversation, I'd have been so angry about the hair I'd have been absolutely unwilling to give a single inch.

lieselotte · 01/12/2022 12:26

TheLeadbetterLife · 01/12/2022 12:23

Just like Prince Phillip, eh?

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If it wasn't true, she wouldn't have resigned.

I had forgotten the bit about moving the hair out of the way, that was really outrageous.

QueenCoconut · 01/12/2022 12:27

Frabbits · 01/12/2022 11:10

The problem was that the royal refused to accept Fulani was british because she didn't look british.

How do you look British? White?

TheEponymousGrub · 01/12/2022 12:27

stuntbubbles · 01/12/2022 12:24

Who had “calling a Black woman ‘hostile’” on their racism bingo card for this thread? Almost full now.

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Yup

FirewomanSam · 01/12/2022 12:27

I am fascinated by how much of the conversation around this revolves around NF and whether she was in the wrong, whether she was being deliberately obtuse, whether her recollection of the conversation is accurate and even what she was wearing! As a society we seem determined to find ways to minimise racism and find fault with its victims instead of just calling a spade a spade. We still think that calling someone racist is more offensive than actually saying something racist. NF was upset by the conversation, and she has very eloquently expressed why. I think people need to try to really listen to what she says about it and understand her point of view, and resist that deeply-ingrained urge to jump in with ‘oh but…’ at any moment.

MaryMollyPolly · 01/12/2022 12:28

TheSnootiestFox · 01/12/2022 12:23

This. Exactly this. Racism, as I understand it, is a person of one race thinking that another person is inferior because they are from a different race. So had SH said, 'Don't be stupid, you can't be from Hackney. Aren't black people stupid?' then that would be appalling and racist. I've been asked 'where the hell are you from?' as a white woman getting on a bus in the US, because as soon as I opened my mouth the driver was curious. Was I offended? Not in the least.

An old lady checking she'd understood correctly by repeating a question that she didn't get the expected answer to, is not racist and whoever she was that was offended needs to grow the fuck up. Exactly the same as the whole Meghan's baby debacle, my dad was born in 1919 and that's exactly the type of question he'd have asked me if I'd have married a black bloke. Not in the context of racism, but because he would have been genuinely curious as to what his grandchildren would look like. Honestly, if you want to be treated equally as a person of colour, then stop playing the race card every time someone old and possibly vulnerable opens their mouth.

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You’re wrong. You don’t understand what racism is at all.

BabyFour2023 · 01/12/2022 12:28

Heartstopper · 01/12/2022 11:05

I agree the transcript reads badly but I also agree with OP and think the woman questioned was being obtuse. A simple, 'I'm British, born and bred, but my ancestors came from X in 19xx' would have answered the question and may have led to a friendly discussion about culture.

This!
She worded it badly but I think by the “ok, where are your people from” she meant ancestors, family; where are your family originally from.

I am mixed race and have no problem telling people where my fathers family are from. It’s clear what people are asking me when they ask where my family are from. I don’t feel they’re being racist when they ask me.

HOWEVER

It’s how it’s perceived by the individual. The lady in question felt it was racist and her feelings cannot be invalidated.