to think the census data on religion should mean some changes to how we view the Church of England in this country

[cakeorwine]

ONS data on religion released today

For the first time in a census of England and Wales, less than half of the population (46.2%, 27.5 million people) described themselves as “Christian”, a 13.1 percentage point decrease from 59.3% (33.3 million) in 2011; despite this decrease, “Christian” remained the most common response to the religion question.

“No religion” was the second most common response, increasing by 12.0 percentage points to 37.2% (22.2 million) from 25.2% (14.1 million) in 2011.

You can find out about your area here

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

An interesting map is available - you can zoom in to local areas
The number of Christians is falling. Still a high percentage but less than half the population of England and Wales say they are Christian.

Christianity could mean Catholicism, C of E and other Christian faiths.

So should this mean we look at 'the State Religion', having Bishops in the House of Lords and the link between the Monarch being the Head of the Church of England. Basically - look at distestablishing the Church of England from the State.

“The c of e has a bizarre involvement in british primary schools that's really inappropriate these days.”

They basically started state education and Christian money bought the land and buildings for a third of the current school estate. They still own and maintain it. Wtf is ‘bizarre’ and ‘inappropriate’ about that?

They basically started state education and Christian money bought the land and buildings for a third of the current school estate.

Maybe have a think about where all that 'Christian money' actually came from over the centuries.

From ordinary church goers in parishes?

must say I thought the number would be lower- just under half is still massive. I had it in my head that it was 30% at the last census!

We are certainly still a culturally Christian country.

What are the basics then? Go on

Maybe you're thinking of the Social Attitudes surveys - the graph shows no religion over 50% and Christianity under 40% by 2018.

www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-36/religion.aspx

OP do you understand how the law works?

If we separate church and state then where will the moral force for justice come from?

Seems like a slippery slope.

Less and less people might say they’re Christian or CofE because they don’t understand the faith.

I’m an agnostic/atheist these days, but I’m happy with the way things are (and my atheist Dad feels the same). I went to a Christian primary school, celebrate the main C of E festivals, and have been to Christian baptisms, weddings and funerals, so Christianity feels like a part of me.

I would happily abolish the monarchy, however.

Christian morals? Didn't the Christian god drown millions of kittens & puppies just because people didn't kiss his ass enough?

Not exactly. Regretted creating humans as they were wicked, so decided to wipe out all except Noah and his family - and for some reason also nearly all the animals and birds. Quite how this becomes a nice Sunday school story and jolly song escapes me.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+6&version=NIV

What we need are secular churches 😅somewhere to go and be part of a community on a Sunday afternoon, maybe sing a few songs..... oh wait! Isn't that a pub?

I was raised Catholic, I can't attend anymore due to the homophobia and the historic appalling cases of child abuse. Both of these sicken me and I will not support such institutions.

OP do you understand how the law works?

If we separate church and state then where will the moral force for justice come from?

Sounds like you don't understand how the law and justice system work if you think it depends on the CofE in any way.
Many of the advances in equality and justice - eg equal rights regardless of sex or sexuality - have been made despite, not because of, that church.

It would be the same hours as a Saturday. They don't work 24/7...

The supreme governor of the CofE is the monarch to symbolise law and justice from god. Judges swear an oath or affirmation to the monarch, don’t they?

Let me re-phrase. Do you know how power works?

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That includes both church and state.

Separate church and state then you weaken the checks and balances in place. The advancements you’ve discussed were possible through lively debate between church and state and other organisations. Progress is great but there still needs to be a lively discussion from different sectors.

Euthanasia is one ethical debate that the church has clearly succeeded on despite the state. “The official position is that the Church of England remains firmly opposed to assisted dying.” Sound arguments are made too: www.churchofengland.org/sites/default/files/2017-11/Assisted%20Suicide%20and%20the%20Church%20of%20England.pdf

Euthanasia is one ethical debate that the church has clearly succeeded on despite the state. “The official position is that the Church of England remains firmly opposed to assisted dying.”

That's a whole other thread but I wouldn't characterise that as a successful outcome from an ethical perspective.

That’s your opinion.

The point is that the CofE helps in creating a lively debate for such ethical matters.

Judging by the speed of your response, I assume you didn’t read the paper? So how can your opinion be well informed?

Judging by the speed of your response, I assume you didn’t read the paper? So how can your opinion be well informed?

Previous consideration of the issue, of course.

The 'lively debate' would surely exist regardless of whether there was a state church or not. Giving one particular religious religious group more power than any other belief system doesn't seem in any way a good thing.

Are you suggesting there should be a consultation with other faith groups? That’s not a bad idea.

And what does your previous consideration think about the church’s arguments?

In some debates I have felt genuinely terrified if the church (or equivalent) wasn’t there to speak up for the vulnerable in society and signal the virtues of compassion.

I agree. But not just Christianity, all religions. No to all religious state schools as well. I went to one that tried to indoctrinate you daily. Some really vulnerable dc were there. If anything m, religious state schools seem to be on the rise not decline.

Some of the non Christian ones are particularly segregating too.

This feels like a sad thread. Where I am there are religious schools of many different religions and very highly rated.
I’m not sure what the answer is.

I don’t agree that mindfulness is a bit of a free for all - I don’t think anyone who has practiced it would agree. The practice teaches people to tap into the ‘observer self’ vs the self that has thoughts and feelings, which is essentially a commonality with most religions - tapping into god with us - what Christianity calls Emmanuel. The free for all you refer to might be a surface perception of the freedom that brings people into it (which is in contrast to the structured mythology/theology that people have to be inducted into with Christianity or any other religion). With mindfulness, people are free to believe what they want and call things what they want, but what they find - God in us - the observer self - is common amongst all who practice.

Each religion has its own language and framework to describe things but all describe common human experiences. If you really dig into them all and the human mind you find that we all have common innate values inside. And science/psychology is beginning to describe this e.g. we know that the body thrives when we live inside a window of tolerance of our feelings, particularly in a zone of gratitude and appreciation, and we know what conditions we need in order to live in that zone most of the time (i.e. needing to feel safe and secure, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs etc).

I think it’s only a matter of time until we move towards a more inclusive way of describing our humanity and what conditions make our minds and bodies thrive, which forms the basis for what values we need to have for society to thrive.

I’m quite excited about a future where we’re able to recognise the commonalities between religions, science, humanity, instead of the differences, and then celebrate the different expressions of that. I think the future is very bright!

I would like to see an end to Church schools. And anyone that thinks we need the Church as the foundation of justice must have a skewed sense of morality.

YANBU given the census (though I am Anglican). The death of HM Queen reminded me how intertwined church and state are. I think it would be like Brexit on steroids trying to untangle it.
As an FYI someone mentioned primary but there are CofE secondary schools too.

I'm with France on this, I believe in total separation of state and religions and I mean ALL religion. I think people should keep their beliefs to themselves, no one at all should expect special treatment as they have some belief in a supernatural being. I don't want to know what your god thinks you should be doing, neither should it impinge on my non belief. If you believe fine, but otherwise ,no. No bishops in the House of Lords, in fact I would do away with that altogether. No funding of religious schools, by the state or any funding of any other organization that is purely religious in nature. And I agree that only civil marriages should be recognized, if people want a religious service after that,OK , but there needs to be a civil ceremony first. I'm sure that wouldn't be popular with some but if any person believes then they are free to do so, just don't shove it down my throat. Glad I've got that off my chest!