to think the census data on religion should mean some changes to how we view the Church of England in this country

[cakeorwine]

ONS data on religion released today

For the first time in a census of England and Wales, less than half of the population (46.2%, 27.5 million people) described themselves as “Christian”, a 13.1 percentage point decrease from 59.3% (33.3 million) in 2011; despite this decrease, “Christian” remained the most common response to the religion question.

“No religion” was the second most common response, increasing by 12.0 percentage points to 37.2% (22.2 million) from 25.2% (14.1 million) in 2011.

You can find out about your area here

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

An interesting map is available - you can zoom in to local areas
The number of Christians is falling. Still a high percentage but less than half the population of England and Wales say they are Christian.

Christianity could mean Catholicism, C of E and other Christian faiths.

So should this mean we look at 'the State Religion', having Bishops in the House of Lords and the link between the Monarch being the Head of the Church of England. Basically - look at distestablishing the Church of England from the State.

I’m committed Christian (RC) and I agree that the church and state should be separated and have thought this for a long time, also ban religious schools. Also, that figure of people who have put Christian on the census it really interesting. What do you define as Christian? If it’s people who go to church every week, are part of a parish community and/or actually believe (or try to believe) and follow the teachings of Christ I would say the number is much lower, less than 5%? Going by my colleague, friends and acquaintances..I think that church and state should be separated so there is a choice, people who want to be Christian should choose to be, rather than just having to go along with stuff they don’t really care about due to going to a religious school etc

Ah yes, I forgot that we don’t care about non-white vulnerable girls, and liberal white men don’t sexually abuse anyone.

…And ‘just under half’ the country is still a significant number!

Unfortunately this didn’t apply to Brexit….

However, I do think that a lot of our ingrained western moral values and compass are down to Christian teachings, more than a lot of us would like to admit. Howeve mr still stand by my previous post that church and state should be separate. Dan Snow (I think?) did an interesting podcast on the place of Christian teachings in western values

No one is getting rid of hymns or Christmas cards or carol services or the Nativity.

Just a separation of the C of E and State.

I am sure Christmas and all the things around it will continue

I would. The majority of it was stolen from the pagan solstice celebrations anyway! Time
to give it back.

They didn’t sing hymns when Dd was in primary or infant. They definitely don’t sing them in secondary school

Meh, it would be more interesting to see what % believed accident of birth is the best way to chose our head of state. We have a King as our head of state, that we also have a state religion that doesn’t interest the majority is really the smaller part of the problem with our constitutional set up.

if we aren’t going to be a proper democracy, and our 2nd chamber isn’t elected, there’s a lot to be said for having a chunk of the people in there as people with some fucking morals, and not just those who’ve bought their place.

I do wonder about William's religious beliefs. The Queen was a Christian - Charles has sworn to defend the faith and will be Head of the C of E, but William? Maybe he is, maybe he isn't...but I guess it would cause issues if he said "actually, I don't believe in God".

They absolutely do in Wales.

This was on England. Not sure why they would songs in a multi cultural school really.

Im not sure im getting what people are saying about the christian values underpinning laws etc - there are literally millions of people who hold good morals without them being specifically christianity related..... 'Love thy neighbour' is just another way of saying 'look out for each other' right? Genuinely interested - are there examples of morality dipping in societies that move to entirely secular?

Also when people make the argument for 'there was more community spirit when christianity was higher' i do always think - yes, not for women though if you didnt toe the line...

It would be interesting to have seen the results if the question had been different:

"Some people argue that the proportion of people ticking “no religion” would have been higher with a different question. The census asked in an optional section, “What is your religion?”, a question that could lead people to choose a religion rather than no religion.
In 2020, the year before the census was taken, the British Social Attitudes Survey asked: ”Do you regard yourself as belonging to any particular religion? If yes, which?” It found that 53% of British adults said they had no religion, while 37% identified as Christian."

So if the census had asked:

A) Do you regard yourself as belonging to any particular religion?

B) If Yes, which religion?

There could have been a different answer - unlike the "What is your religion?" question

I agree.

As the England team were singing the national anthem tonight I noted to DP that it seems even more outdated after todays news. Which also got me thinking about William's beliefs too OP!

I'm French and can guarantee that Laïcité does not mean longer opening hours on Sundays and Bank Holidays!

I am not religious, or observant, in the traditional sense. But if you pushed me, I would say that my moral outlook was very firmly based on Christian tenets and culture. My whole framework and projection of society is profoundly Christian. I like the liturgy aesthetically but I do not intellectually need to repeat the Nicene Creed to prove it. I believe in a spiritual path to becoming a better version of myself. And, I like a progressive Jewish/Christian/Islamic approach. The basic tenets of conduct, kindness and charity unite us. Genital mutilation, and the suppression of women's best interests in favour of male comfort has absolutely no place in my world.

Yep - 100% agree with separation of church and state. Any church...

Christian morals? Didn't the Christian god drown millions of kittens & puppies just because people didn't kiss his ass enough?

I think values and rituals are important too - Alain de Botton wrote a great book on that, something like Atheism 2.0

but we are naturally coming to form secular ones based in psychology anyway e.g. mindfulness instead of prayer

Please don’t comment about Christianity if you don’t even know the basics of the old and new testaments 🙄

It’s interesting though does mindfulness and private prayer have the same effects. Private prayer acts within a framework, with a goal. Mystical experiences again have a reference point to verbalise experiences, this is true whether you are accessing an external divine or connecting to part of yourself. It also services to reinforce social structure by meditating on something agreed across society

mindfullness is a bit of a free for all - there’s a danger of it causing more harm than good if you’re not focusing on helpful things or don’t have a framework in which to place any revelations. It lacks the social cohesiveness of prayer or meditation on an agreed goal.

there are things to be learned and gained from a stand alone mindfullness practices but nothing compared to a mediation/prayer ritual within a wider structure

there are things to be learned and gained from a stand alone mindfullness practices but nothing compared to a mediation/prayer ritual within a wider structure

Hopefully that will be in a place of worship or at a venue where the theme / focus has a religious focus because the attendees are there for the religious bit.

They can comment as they like actually - you don't get a say

Actually I do get a say. And of course they can post what they want but if it’s a load of old bollocks it doesn’t add anything does it?

Absolutely. All schools should be secular for 1. The c of e has a bizarre involvement in british primary schools that's really inappropriate these days.

But wouldn't the basics of all religions (apologies if I'm wrong) and principles of decent non religious people be teaching right from wrong, don't steal from others, treat people kindly etc...?
Iirc after the Grenfell Tower fire a local mosque provided food, shelter etc for people who had escaped the fire. And last year when there was some issue with brexit/covid testing causing chaos with Lorries crossing the channel, the Sikh community nearby delivered meals to lorry drivers who had been in their cabs for days.

I used to belong to a church and then i left because i felt hypocritical. I didn't agree with their stance on women, and their roles in church (or society as a whole) , or on homosexuality....but the thing I miss more than anything is the sense of community and my friends - far more than any teachings