WIBU to take DD's advent calendar away to teach her to say thank you

[ItsNotReallyChaos]

My DD (5) is articulate and has full understanding of basic manners but she's driving me mad at the moment because she won't reply 'hello' if someone says hello to her, won't say 'bye' as we leave somewhere.

I've just given her her advent calendar and she didn't say thank you.

She's not a spoilt child in terms of material stuff. I only really buy presents for birthday/Christmas, with the occasional book bought in between times but she just never seems grateful to receive things. You'd think she received stuff on a daily basis if you saw her not-bothered response to being given something nice.

I feel like I've failed her as by now, hello, goodbye and thank you should be automatic.

Any advice?

And would it be totally unreasonable to take the Advent calendar away to try to teach her the hard way to say thank you!

Punishing a child daily for the best part of a month would be very excessive imo.

How can she have a full understanding of basic manners if she doesn’t say hello, bye or thank you 🤷‍♀️

A bit late now, you should have said something at the time when she didn’t say thank you.
And brought her up on it each time she didn’t say hello or goodbye.

What advent calendar was it?

Horrible thing to do and a total over reaction

Shes 5. Tell her to say thank you. Remind her. And let the kid have her advent calendar.

At 5 DS still needed regular prompting. It was sometime after his sixth birthday that it became automatic. Just keep prompting her and she will get there.

*A bit late now, you should have said something at the time when she didn’t say thank you.

And brought her up on it each time she didn’t say hello or goodbye.*

I have done this and clearly it hasn't worked which is why I'm wondering if more drastic action is needed.

However I do agree with pp that it's too much to take away the advent calendar as all her friends will be talking about opening theirs.

You're completely over reacting! She's 5!

This.

Short correction each and every time.

How can you expect her to learn if you don't help her

Yes it would be unreasonable!

Have a look at selective mutism and see if that might fit. My kids will tell you than I’m obsessed with them saying thank you etc. Our youngest had selective mutism at a nursery that didn’t suit her. Her anxiety settled when we moved her nursery but even years later being put under pressure to say thank you can bring it back. selective mutism is a terrible name as it is not selective at all!

If it’s not selective mutism then I suspect your child feels more need to have some autonomy. I think often how they make us feel is a mirror on how they’re feeling inside. If they’re deliberately not doing something that is straightforward to do then they’re subconsciously trying to tell you something is up in my experience.

Specifically with thank you, I hold into something and only let go when they say thank you. It reminds them when they’ve forgotten!

It would be unreasonable, yes.

She's reached a point where she doesn't think it's necessary. Everyone reaches that at some point, and some people refuse to leave.

Your job now is to model it happening. All The Sodding Time.

Eventually you'll get used to holding conversations with yourself ("yes please mummy!...thank you mummy! you're welcome sweetheart"). Even more eventually you might be able to stop doing it.

You need to remind/prompt every time. I still have to with my 5 year old and sometimes even my 9 year old forgets and needs a reminder.

You hand her the advent calendar and if she doesn’t say thank you, a quick “dd, what do you say?” Reminder is all that’s needed for mine.

Entirely pointless to punish her this way. It's in no way a natural consequence.

Far better to teach by reinforcing really frequent actions with a thank you - like making breakfast or giving her a drink.

Not a once a year treat that she's barely got into the tradition of yet.

How can she have a full understanding of basic manners if she doesn’t say hello, bye or thank you 🤷‍♀️

I mean that she knows that she should say hello and goodbye and thank you. I think she forgets the thank yous but with hello in particular, she just doesn't want to.

Is she shy/awkward around other people?

With the thank yous just remind her. Eventually it will become automatic. Also model what you want to see by saying thank you when she does little jobs for you or gives you something .

Is she happy with the gifts? Does she use them /enjoy them? Are they things she really wants/likes?

You just have to keep reminding her OP. She's completely normal. For some reason it takes years before they remember by themselves every time!

Is she happy with the gifts? Does she use them /enjoy them? Are they things she really wants/likes?

Yes to all of those.

"What do you say.....?"

"What do you say.....?"

"What do you say......?"

She's only 5, you have to keep prompting until it becomes automatic.

You need to chill out. She is 5. Carry on as you are. She will be fine.

Why would taking it away teach her to say thank you?

Manners are learnt through example and repetition, not generally by punishments.
You could get the first one out on day 1 and ask her if she wants it and teach her to say yes please. Then give it to her and prompt her to say thank you- then repeat for 24 days and see if she gets it?

Mine was the same, turned out he had ASD that wasn't diagnosed until much later. I would just encourage her but not make it into a big thing and definitely don't punish her.

It might be that she struggles with being the focus of attention when it comes to the hellos and goodbyes. Does she have any other social quirks?

As a child it took a long time for me to realise that the way NOT to be noticed (I was very shy and would much prefer to be ignored) was to actually say these things promptly. And that my shyness made people notice me MORE (especially when I had to be prompted).

If that resonates, maybe point that out to her

She's still very young. It takes YEARS of persistence with manners (on the parents' part!) for it to fully pay off.

@ItsNotReallyChaos ANY punishment MUST occur immediately after the behaviour - otherwise she will not make the connection between the behaviour and the consequence. She will likely feel aggrieved and resentful at a punishment without the pairing with a behaviour in the moment.

What will taking it away achieve? Surely corrective feedback needs to happen in the moment rather than days later. Have you asked her why she doesn't say thank you? Does she forget? Does she not see it as important? Have you laid out the boundaries of what is expected in advance?

She is learning to navigate the world of social interactions. You may well feel this is a reasonable punishment (that's what it is, a punishment) but you may just cause her to either dig her heels in or worry constantly about getting it wrong. Either way its probably not that helpful.