WIBU to take DD's advent calendar away to teach her to say thank you

[ItsNotReallyChaos]

My DD (5) is articulate and has full understanding of basic manners but she's driving me mad at the moment because she won't reply 'hello' if someone says hello to her, won't say 'bye' as we leave somewhere.

I've just given her her advent calendar and she didn't say thank you.

She's not a spoilt child in terms of material stuff. I only really buy presents for birthday/Christmas, with the occasional book bought in between times but she just never seems grateful to receive things. You'd think she received stuff on a daily basis if you saw her not-bothered response to being given something nice.

I feel like I've failed her as by now, hello, goodbye and thank you should be automatic.

Any advice?

And would it be totally unreasonable to take the Advent calendar away to try to teach her the hard way to say thank you!

For a 5 yo, advent calendar is a tricky concept. It is a lots of chocolate I'm not allowed to eat (just now). So what am I thanking for now?

I don't have a solution, but I hated people trying to teach me "manners" by stupid questions like "what do you say" when I was a child.
Especially bad were older relatives who randomly decided that this person needs a "hello" (after passing several other without an interaction), or that this orange requires a "thank you" when no other did. And then started playacting pleases and thank yous for 10 minutes and looked ridiculous.

I found my way around insincere politeness much later, when I started to treat "good afternoon" or "please" as a kind of social weapon. I said a polite phrase, so the other party should stop looking disapproving.
What helped was confirming my suspicions that no one cares whether my afternoon is good, but we use it to communicate concepts like "we are two humans here". It makes much more sense now :)

Can you understand why a 5 year old might not have been thrilled to be given a calendar she can't do anything with for a couple of days?

What reaction did she have when you gave her the calendar? Other than not saying thank you, was she unappreciative? Did she toss it aside, not bothered with it or was she excited and happy about it?

Yes I can but I suppose I put it in the same category as kids getting a new pencil case ready for the new school year, buying a costume ready for Halloween, being given an Easter egg by a relative a bit ahead of Easter. I grew up enjoying the anticipation of these things, not having them presented on the specific day they were first to be used and not presented with a great deal of fuss.

DD looked at the advent calendar and did take interest in it so no, it's not that she tossed it aside in a completely uncaring way.

I suggest you hang on to the advent calendar until the day after tomorrow, which is when they should be given.

I suggest you hang on to the advent calendar until the day after tomorrow, which is when they should be given.

Does the date really matter that much?

If someone gives DD a present a few days before Christmas to put under the tree until Christmas will that also be a problem in your view?

Im a year 2 teacher and well over half the class don’t say please when ordering their lunches, or thank you if given something. I have to remind them loads. I don’t think you have failed with basic manners when she’s only 5!

I think you'll find that there's no compulsory rule on when kids can first receive their advent calendar!

Seriously? Wow. My DD has been saying please, thank you & you're welcome since she could speak. These also said to her every single time as well

She’s 5! Of course she won’t get it right every time. That’s why you’re there to help her learn. Not by punishing and shaming but gently reminding.

My 14yo DS is a shy kid and it has taken a long time for him to reliably look people in the eye when he shakes their hand, talk without mumbling etc. He’s away with school staying with a family he’s never met and I was reminding him about manners in the car on the way to the airport! Last night I got a lovely text from his host mum saying what a friendly and polite boy he is, very engaged in the conversation and had complimented her cooking, bless him. Sometimes you just have to be patient and persistent!

Don't do this - she's 5. Read about brain development of children and then decide if this is appropriate. You're treating her like she's grown.

Five year olds often go through a phase of inconsistent or completely forgotten manners.

Don't sweat it. Model patience and good humour, and make sure you yourself display good manners.

She will get there. Drastic punishment is not the way to lead her. Don't make a huge thing of it. Make sure she knows she is loved and appreciated even if you think she could do with a little polishing.

My daughter was like this at 5 and has been diagnosed now with autism

5 is v young...just keep reminding her

My dd couldn’t cope with gifts under the tree age 5… or age 11. Wouldn’t leave them alone. You’re expecting way too much from a tiny dot, who is far closer in years to a baby than a teen. Dd is 14. I still give her her advent calendar on the day. Why would I give it early? I don’t get it. You gave something to your 5 yo and said you can’t have it until I say so. That’s not a gift from a child’s perspective. In answer to your question, Christmas presents are different. Your dd will have her advent calendar as a countdown - they are a tool to counter pester power - and you will be counting the days down until Santa comes.

You need to back off massively.

model appropriate manners. Remind her to use appropriate manners. If she doesn’t want to say hello, let it the fuck go. Some kids aren’t ready. For some children it causes extreme anxiety.

You may have a child like mine who eventually gets an ASD diagnosis. I’m an adult with ASD and I still have to force myself to comply with these ridiculous conventions, it doesn’t come naturally. Aside from thanking someone which feels genuine, most just don’t feel necessary in most scenarios which feels grating plus it triggers social anxiety in general.

This would be really mean, she's five!

Poor kid. She’s 5 ffs, and you’re being very unreasonable.
Why force her to talk when she clearly doesn’t want to for whatever reason?
Yes by all means keep reminding her to say thank you but taking away something you’ve already given her and shaming her for such a minor reason is spiteful.
You sound horribly like how my mother treated me.

@CoffeandTiaMaria

That's sad. I'm lucky enough to have had a very kind Mum but having said that, my father wasn't so great (save for a different thread!)

I guess the OP is trying to do the 'right thing' but needs to get less angry about it.

I thought everyone's kids went through a stage of not bothering to say hello or bye, i remember with all of mine having to 'say bye don't be rude' rolling my eyes and saying sorry to the other person, then telling them again in private its rude. As for thank you sometimes they just need reminding, as adults we have had many many years to learn and remember this 5 really isn't very old.

She is only 5
gentle encouragement, good role models from everyone in the house and reputation. Let her see you using manners all day every day and she will pick it up naturally. Stop stressing about it.
Please don’t punish a 5 year old by taking away their Christmas advent calendar, that’s just cruel

Agree with others that you need to model good manners at home. Constantly. You say thank you to her, to your DH and her siblings. You expect siblings to say please and thank you to each other. And you pick up a missing one every time. Doesn’t have to be a huge deal, but you give the reminder. (“Thank you, Sarah”. “Yes please, mummy”. Or whatever.). And they learn. With the advent calendar, a slightly sterner “Errr - thank you, Mummy” would have been fair enough. At the time. But not now.

I teach 11 year olds and there are still a few perfectly lovely children who need a bit of reminding of their manners.

Punishing a child into being polite seems a bit odd. I model expected behaviour all the time by thanking them for every little kindness. I also say things like ‘oh you have such lovely manners’ when one of them is unexpectedly polite. Or my favourite, when giving something out, ‘oh well done, you’re the first one to say thank you’. When they see someone else being praised, the rest then fall over themselves to join in being polite.

All children respond better to praise than punishment.

My 6 year old was like this.

I didn't ever punish him. I reminded him to say please and thank you as required. And I encouraged him to greet his teachers at the school gate every morning.

He got there in the end.

Yabu. She's only 5.
If she doesn't do it when she's older then it could be selective mutism. My teen does it.

As in, my younger teen still doesn't say hello, thank you etc.