It is not natural for men to look after babies and possibly young children.

[TheYChromosome]

I shall start by saying I’m not asking for advice. Also before people pile in and either start bashing men or suggesting solutions this thread is not actually for that.

I have a baby 9m and DH has been looking after her since she was 8 weeks. I’m back at work.

So he is really the main care giver and spends with DC most of the time. Despite of that, she in general settles better with me and now we hit the separation anxiety it’s me that she clings to.

Really ideally there would be men on here and I would be interested to hear their take on it l. But as there aren’t many men perhaps the army of women can share their observations and experiences how there DHs find being around babies.

Really the point of this thread is to get a window into how men feel when they look after young children.

I find DH although he loves our DC he finds it difficult to look after her. As an extension of that when ever I’m not working he prefers me taking care of her as I think he finds it draining more than I do.

So again, point of this thread is to get some more insights into how easy or difficult men find it too look after babies. If there are men reading this please do comment.

I know, I know - we are a modern society and generally quite forward thinking, but…. Are there some natural biological inclinations that just will never fully change. All we can do is try to understand better and facilitate better.

It isn’t natural for either gender to be doing childcare in isolation. We’re meant to live in small villages where everyone would have helped. Of course, much of that help would have been provided by the women and women would naturally breastfeed so would have a closer bind with the baby.

I met a mum once at my DS’s old school who was from a small village in the Himalayas and she said all the kids played together and the mums chatted. She was very lonely….not sure why she was in the uk.

"I find DH although he loves our DC he finds it difficult to look after her. As an extension of that when ever I’m not working he prefers me taking care of her as I think he finds it draining more than I do."
This is just being a primary carer for a child.

I read recently that children brought up by a single dad compared to a single mum fair better in adulthood statistically.

I was surprised by that as my children naturally gravitate towards me but they must be doing something right?

i was the child of a single parent dad from baby, and see dbil doing the same- also have dh who has been committed to the baby stage, though is the higher earner- some observations:
men hear praise more for their choices as a single parent (both bc there is more praise/less judgement, and bc (statistically) they are more likely to overestimate rather than underestimate their skill levels in most areas)
Men are offered help more in public and get a more sympathetic response from agencies like social care if they ‘present’ as a caring figure in difficult circumstances (poverty/housing issues/social services meetings)
men get the same dismissive responses that women tend to from, for example GP when asking for send assessments for their children, but when the man cries or becomes visibly anxious as a result, this gets a more positive response than it would from a woman-
df expectations of himself/assessment of his parenting in hindsight is much much more positive than that of myself, other dms in the family- not in the sense that the facts are notably different for each of us, he just, I think, feels at liberty to to talk about those facts in a much more positive, proud way.
equally, both dh and dbil don’t second guess themselves as often- one as primary caregiver, one as involved wage earner. But neither see that as evidence that they aren’t committed. It is simply more acceptable for them to feel like an adequate parent, and leave it there - and I think this does impact the ‘shape’ of their parenting-
I dont necessarily think women find it easier, I think they (women) do a lot of extra stuff that makes the finished/visible result look more finessed, but also has these huge unseen detrimental effects of their health,careers, and self image. And the extra stuff is generally pushed by social expectations, social interactions and gendered language codes- all things that are documented across sociological studies-

I suspect there are other factors at play though, especially in terms of number of children in the household and the total household income, so poverty possibly plays a significant role, just as it does for single parent households vs dual parent households. Would be interesting to look at.

A lot of that is probably financial though - far more women end up in poverty after divorce/separation, and we know there is a strong link between deprivation in childhood and poor life chances.

I think it does very much depend on the man, there are some very loving, hands on and capable fathers and equally lots of crap mums.
But generally speaking I think child rearing and caring for small children comes more naturally to women and we are more biologically predisposed to raising children.

I find DH although he loves our DC he finds it difficult to look after her. As an extension of that when ever I’m not working he prefers me taking care of her as I think he finds it draining more than I do.

90% of the threads on mumsnet are about husbands who come home from work and then dont help out with the kids. He finds it more draining than you do because he is doing it all day as the main care giver.

Single dads are statistically better off than single mums - accounting for differences in sample sizes-
parental income still remains the biggest predictor of reading age at 11, level of qualification when leaving school, fsm throughout secondary, university destinations, level of income at age 24-30, etc etc
Why? Plausibly: across a population money buys children time, energy, attention, stable mental health, food, aspiration. Even if that is not directly from a parent, but from stable childcare options, involved support systems, stable and well-financed schooling.

This.

Seems to be trendy today to say the biological mother of the child is irrelevant / easily replaced. The baby knows her mothers voice and heartbeat when born. Entering the world is difficult for a baby to process. It makes sense baby prefers what it knows best.

that said, this doesn’t seem to be what the op is talking about in her post which seems to be more about who finds parenting most draining.

also this from @Guiltycat

I think it does matter when they are very young. Young babies are more comforted by their mother and mothers generally want to be around them (barring PND/trauma etc.). The baby knows and reacts to the sound of its mothers voice before being born. Adopted and surrogate babies suffer lifelong trauma after being separated from the birth mother. But I think after a certain age, as long as the caregiver is a good one ultimately it doesn’t matter what sex they are. Men should be encouraged to be involved with dc, this doesn’t mean you have to ignore the biologically reality of a very young baby needing it’s mother

Interesting thread! Although I'm the one who's taken parental leave due to breastfeeding, DH and I have co-parented in a fairly even way so far thanks to both being permanently WFH. Our 2 year old seems to have a slight preference for me, although notices if DH isn't around immediately and will be upset by it. 2 month old doesn't really have a preference at the moment and we've both have days already where he won't settle for one or the other. I have noticed that a lack of sleep seems to affect DH more though, and I'm more sensitive to the kids waking during the night. We try to be fair on free time, I think I probably need it more than he does though. We'll see how things change when he takes his 3 months of parental leave early next year. I don't think there's necessarily a biological component to who finds it easier, for me it seems to be about mental reserves and resilience, which can be depleted for all sorts of reasons (like spending all day alone with a baby!).

A friend is a male solo parent to two DC, one primary age and one toddler. He has been alone since the youngest was a small baby. He is a totally capable and wonderful parent, 100% devoted to his children.

He stopped going to baby groups as he felt unwelcome by some of the mums as he was always the only dad present (sounds absolutely wild to me, but I have also seen threads along these lines!). When he's out with his children, complete strangers will make comments to him along the lines of 'letting mum have a lie-in?' or 'I hope you've remembered to put sun cream on them!' I've never had anyone make comments to me like that as a mum out with my children -- people either completely ignore me (90% of the time) or have friendly chat.

(Some) Animals where both parents share care of children (because I CBA to do any deeper research into this):

Bonobo Chimpanzees (Pan Paniscus, one of our closest relations, who have matriarchal societies and they also have sex when not ovulating, like us)
Marmosets (a lesser primate)
Tamarins (another lesser primate)
Hamadryas Baboons
Howler Monkeys
Bat-eared foxes (other male foxes will rear their young if mother is killed)
Wolves
Gorillas (bit hit and miss with them, some do, some don't)
Most birds (inc. penguins and emus)
Seahorses (see also: Mr. Seahorse by Eric Carle)
Frogs
Note the number of primates where care is shared.

Remember while there are a LOT of humans on the planet, we are just one species.

I would absolutely agree with this. Anthropological evidence shows shared care in small groups was a common cultural practice for humans outside the "Westernised" monoculture that has taken off alongside Christianity and capitalism.

While women clearly do undergo changes through pregnancy/childbirth/breastfeeding, that doesn't mean that women are better at looking after children in isolation or that males are incapable due to some skewed vision of "biological reality" which is created by exclusion of traits rather than recognition that everyone can contribute different things to rearing their young regardless of chromosomes.

4 babies, 2 husbands. From my limited experience it's not as simple as you think.

Finding babies hard work is much easier for men to say. Babies go through phases of who they want, as do children.

I would say that my husband finds looking after our baby less draining than I do, copes better than me and has taken to it more naturally. I'm due to return to work soon and he will then be the primary caregiver, so we will see if anything changes then.
I do end up doing more for the baby when we are both around as my husband is a lot lazier than me in general. I think it will do us all good when he becomes the main carer and has no choice but to take more initiative.

I’m still reading the responses. Sorry for not replying to questions individually.

I agree it is somewhat a slippery slope. And yes I agree we shouldn’t be saying men are just not natural at it so they can get away with not being as involved. However, the point I’m making is exactly the opposite, should there be something biological involved, such a poster mentioned regarding changes in brain in the mother that might help her with night wakings (for example I still do all the night wakings as it is easier for me, from what ever reason) it’s almost acknowledging that, taking it into account and working with it. This is probably a bad example but for example like dyslexia. If it’s acknowledged and appropriate adjustments are made people can thrive.

And then of course there are the other traits people will have, some are more patient others more short tempered, whether it’s a man or a woman.

What would the ‘appropriate adjustments’ for men not having the special ability to do night wakings? Because there’s only one o can think of and it’s not acceptable.

The appropriate adjustment would be sleeping with an extra loud monitor next to their heads when they “don’t hear” the baby crying. 😁

My experience of my exp were of him having no “maternal instinct” whatsoever. Of course “maternal” applies to the mother, and I think (especially in our case) for good reason. I am sure many men can learn to be good parents to young babies and children, to replicate the traditional roles of the mother, but in terms of “nature” they are bigger, stronger biologically as they were the hunters, and women by nature were the child rearers. Modern society promotes equality of roles, but OP is asking about “nature”, which is different.
With my child, I always knew where she was, what she was doing. Always aware, like a form of ESP. I always preempted falls, and dashed to catch her. I always sat with her when she was eating, preempting choking. Her father did none of this. He’d put food in front of her and leave the room. He’d stand and watch her fall over and say “You’re ok, you’re ok” from a distance, rather than rush to her aid or provide cuddles. He was more of a distant, detached observer. This is of course anecdotal, and I have no experience of other male parents (apart from my own father who was similarly useless at parenting), but I do know a gay couple who adopted two boys (around ages 6-8) so I know men can certainly have a want, and need, to parent. Whether they do it in the same way as a “mother”, well I am sure it depends on the particular men.

@SalviaOfficinalis

Ok, fair 😂 I accept that as a reasonable adjustment. Or possibly mum moving downstairs so dad is able to do some night wakings. Hopefully that’s the type of adjustment op was talking about!

To be honest this just sounds like a rubbish, lazy, neglectful father, who had no care for or interest in his child.

The basic human ability to care for your child isn’t some magical natural ability only bestowed on the female sex. He didn’t neglect caring for his child because he’s a man, because any grown man (barring severe learning delays or disabilities) should be able to comprehend the simple notion that you should go to your hurt child, and you shouldn’t leave small children to eat alone.

Absolutely not @CoalCraft You are massively overthinking this.

@Clymene is correct. I was merely pointing out the biological fact that men can't breastfeed. Nothing more.