Apparently I'm "old fashioned and anti-feminist"

[MVDC]

Because I told my friend who's thinking about TTC that she should seriously consider getting married first, even if it's just a register office job.

Apparently that makes me puritanical and woman shaming. Have directed her to the 4 threads I've read so far this morning where women had kids unmarried and are now getting completely screwed by their partners as the relationship breaks down.

I'm really, really angry. Not so much at my friend as at society who's convinced women that "cool girls don't need marriage" and I'm just... My coffee isn't Irish enough.

I’d tell you to fuck off if you said that to me, I put 1/3 of the value of out home as a deposit, I earn more, and I will be going back to work. How would marriage benefit me?

Nope

my friends 21 year old has never had a job, shes just had a baby and is now living in his new house that his parents insisted on being in his name only (which is probably what id do) i told her mum that she has no protection. This came as a surprise to my friend

ive told dd that ‘generally’ marriage offers her protection

We forget that before marriage was about a dress and a big party it was a legal arrangement. It’s a legally binding contract and in most cases it offers protection to the person who is carrying and giving birth to the babies.
I wouldn’t consider having a child unless I was married, it’s not anti feminist it’s sensible BUT as long as someone knows and understands the risks and isn’t under the impression that living together and having children gives the same legal protection as marriage then let them crack on
There are so many stories on here from women who didn’t know and find themselves in the shit

the post above is exactly why i said generally…

BUT as long as someone knows and understands the risks and isn’t under the impression that living together and having children gives the same legal protection as marriage then let them crack on

sorry i posted too soon and meant to quote hopping

She would be smarter getting married first, but it’s totally none of your business so it’s no wonder she told you to get lost.

Presumably her friend isn't in your situation though.

If she is the higher earner/has more assets she is better off not marrying him.

Otherwise, I agree.

The problem is that they crack on and then when everything falls apart they expect the taxpayers to support them.

Apparently that makes me puritanical and woman shaming.

Maybe you need to accept the sad fact that your friend just isn't very bright OP.

Or maybe she does want to get married really, her partner is prepared to impregnate her but not marry her, & she is deflecting her feelings about that onto you.

@MVDC , your position makes perfect sense if you believe women have a right to be reliant on men. Personally, I don't that position. I think women are fully empowered to be self reliant.

And don't forget that a father in a marriage had more parental rights than a father outside a marriage.

Really?

You'd tell a friend who was looking out for your interests by asking you to carefully consider something that she though was in your best interests, to "fuck off"?

Princess by name, princess by nature ...

I would agree with you for women who are going to be a SAHM, who are vulnerable financially etc.

For me, I paid the full deposit for the house, earned far more and when he left I was able to buy the house and provide for my children without his maintenance, it would have been worse for me to get married.

You can't assume people's circumstances, maybe she is fully prepared and fully informed of what ifs.

You've said exactly what I was about to say.

I'm really, really angry. Not so much at my friend as at society who's convinced women that "cool girls don't need marriage" and I'm just... My coffee isn't Irish enough.

Why is your view and your way better?
Is there a need to be patronising about how someone who doesn’t want to get married is a ‘cool girl’ which obviously is you meaning she doesn’t actually not want marriage, rather she is pretending just to be seen as cool and attractive to men 🙄

There are plenty of ways women can maintain protection if they chose to have children with a man without marriage.

Marriage is not the only way and given the phrasing of your post perhaps your judgment was seeping out towards your friend rather than just some friendly advice.

Ive a friend my age with sons of 24 and 19

she lives in his house, went part time when the boys were young (think it was 3/4 days 9 til 3 to fit round school) and even working full time since they were at senior school

the relationship is incredibly toxic, they are both dreadfully unhappy but she can’t afford to leave

Fair enough.

Because you know that it makes a huge difference, and that in your current circumstances, and all future ones you have considered, that those are not differences you want.

I'd be happy to be told to fuck off in those circs.

But lets get real here. All too many women sleepwalk into positions which leave them dependent. We see posts nearly every week from women who are trapped in difficult situations because they are financially dependent - marriage won't solve everything but it does help for many who are considering exit plans. And it makes the whole world of difference if he is the one who ends it.

Plus it makes a difference the event of death (and the tax advantage cannot be replicated by other means)

It depends entirely on her situation. Most of my friends haven't married and will be fine. Some could put their own considerable assets at risk if they did.

I'm a rad fem.

I've brought my DD13 up on my own. But i focused on my career for years so I'm financially independent.

You are not wrong OP. Having a child outside marriage does not protect her.

The one piece of advice I give young women is to be financially independent.

I'd say it's an old fashioned view, I know many who didn't bother getting married and I'm fairly old. They have stayed together
Financially it's probably not a good idea, but if the one having the children is able to carry on working etc it might work ok.
Each to their own isn't it? I felt I had to get married because of family pressures / religion
It's a bit less rigid these days.

You’re right, the only two options are that the friend is stupid or that she just be pretending she doesn’t want to get married when actually she desperately does because she’s a woman so of course if she doesn’t want marriage she must just be stupid. Yawn.

Marriage as a concept means different things to different people, interesting that your friend used the words puritanical, as that to me evokes all sorts of shame - have you inadvertently touched a very painful nerve?

If she is the lower earner and/or is preparing to reduce her working hours in order to do some childcare while the partner is not, then the legal protections of marriage should certainly be considered.

It's not a one-size-fits-all situation though. However I agree that many people think co-habiting and having a child together will give them the same rights and protections as marriage, when they don't.

If they're not getting married then it's vital to get wills drawn up.

I've found that a couple of my 'living together because we don't believe in all that shit' friends who have gone the distance and are now retirement planning are also now quietly getting married. Because it makes such a financial difference

(I was witness at one, found out entirely by accident about another, and am now wondering if that's random or if it's a common thing to happen)

Presumably you know enough about your friends position to know that for her, marriage would provide protection, but it doesn’t automatically work like that for every woman. I’d have been left in a much worse position if I’d married the man I had children with.

I don’t really see why you have to be angry about. Your friend was understandably offended by what you said and made a shuttle comment in retaliation. Old fashioned and anti feminist is hardly the insult of the century, and if your friend is genuinely being naïve then she’ll realise you were right eventually.