Apparently I'm "old fashioned and anti-feminist"

[MVDC]

Because I told my friend who's thinking about TTC that she should seriously consider getting married first, even if it's just a register office job.

Apparently that makes me puritanical and woman shaming. Have directed her to the 4 threads I've read so far this morning where women had kids unmarried and are now getting completely screwed by their partners as the relationship breaks down.

I'm really, really angry. Not so much at my friend as at society who's convinced women that "cool girls don't need marriage" and I'm just... My coffee isn't Irish enough.

For my relative it was the difference between child maintenance versus child maintenance, £125,000 and half a pension.

Obviously if she had been more financially savvy and not with an abusive man, the marriage wouldn't have made such a big difference. Given her inability to make money at anything like the level he did and his financial control, the marriage was the best thing she could possibly have done.

As a pp said. A friend of mine who was "not into a piece of paper" had to sit in a waiting room where her partner of 19 years life and death decisions were being made by his mother (who disliked her)

Horrific.

You were not unreasonable OP

So many people don't give proper consideration to all the ramifications

We're all an accident/illness away from poverty as they say.

It may not benefit you right now, but it's a bit of a gamble with your future.

Fully agree, but sometimes people can be too opinionated when their opinion wasn't asked for

Unless she is likely to be the higher earner throughout the relationship then getting married is sensible. There are ways to protect yourself legally outside of marriage or civil partnership but it's a faff. It also carries inheritance tax protection which is why you see a fair number of long-term partners marrying when one of them gets sick.
In my case I am the higher earner, so marriage protects DH especially as he took some time out as a SAHD.

@luxxlisbon mothers have parental responsibility from the moment the kid comes out of them. The husband of the mother also has parental responsibility from this point (regardless of them being the father or not). The father (if not the husband) only has parental responsibility when they are named on the birth certificate or given this responsibility by a court.

in my old life working with sick neonates I would have to ask if dads were married to mums before I could get them to consent to procedures as if unmarried because the baby has not yet been registered (wouldn’t suggest parents got married to fix this tho, just register the birth)

www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/who-has-parental-responsibility

in current life as a hcp of adults I get very frustrated when people get very angry when you explain that they may have lived together for 20years and have three kids but they have no legal relationship

getting married - way of telling the state whom you want as your family

(don’t ever actually say it in reality as that would be mean and thoughtless) but can’t be doing with people who get all upset that the health service/government doesn’t magically know who they want to be their significant other if they haven’t married them (was less annoyed before gay marriage was legal obvs) and then complain that there’s not some easy form or process to complete to make this happen - it’s called marriage and it’s pretty cheap to just get the legal bit done

I’ll get flamed for this but I agree with you OP. In my experience it’s almost always the man that doesn’t want to agree with it and the woman accepting that and having kids anyway. I personally would not have children with a man who wasn’t willing to put his money where his mouth is and make a legal and financial commitment to me, I think it’s madness. Most women are made vulnerable financially by having kids, not to mention the physical and mental toll on our bodies, I don’t understand why the hell you’d do that for a man that wouldn’t marry you.

Disclaimer: I know sometimes it’s the woman that doesn’t want to get married, but let’s be honest here that it’s a very small minority of cases.

I won't get married because it would put my higher earning and assets at risk, but that's an informed choice. You are absolutely correct and as a friend you were right to talk to your friend. I imagine she's defensive because she knows you're not wrong.

The marriage act was an absolute shit show that took away the legal protections of unmarried couples and their children, and put women in a position of choosing between giving up their legal personhood or their children having none at all.

Women have clawed back a lot over the centuries with particular gains in the last 50 years. On a practical and individual basis it remains the best way to protect mother and children from the devastating financial gamble of procreating. But it is also a massive social injustice that we don’t afford all mothers and children financial and legal protections from feckless men.

As long as we have a legal system that is predicated on the desire to protect good men (from false allegations, from crime, and from bad women and children) instead of being concerned with the life and welfare of all humans, we can only make piecemeal progress.

Muddying the legal facts with morality and romance was just society wide gaslighting, but unfortunately many people today reject the moral piece without understanding that there’s a nasty, patriarchal bear trap lying in wait.

YANBU op

It's a double edged sword. In most cases marriage is the safer financial choice, but strictly speaking you're pandering to patriarchal tradition for personal benefit.

Maybe it’s op that isn’t very bright and is instead judge mental and old fashioned. Ops friend doesn’t get to unilaterally choose to get married- if her partner refuses it’s pretty hurtful to bring it up in such a sneery way.

Also perhaps ops friend has a decent job or thinks financially she would be better off unmarried. Or perhaps ops friend is perfectly happy to be unmarried given her circumstances and it’s not for op to sneer about it. Perhaps ops friend and her partner have no significant assets and so marriage wouldn’t make much difference.

the idea that marriage “protects” is a middle class old fashioned mn rubbish. Marriage can be of benefits to the less wealthy partner. If neither party are particularly wealthy or if the woman is the higher earner it’s of no advantage.

There are plenty of threads of married women ending up in poverty after divorce as well as unmarried. Sneering at your friends for their life choices never goes down well.

strictly speaking you're pandering to patriarchal tradition for personal benefit

And what's wrong with that? if you can't overthrow it then turn it to your advantage.

Because marriage is a contract. I'm a high earner, own property and advise all women to have the protection of a marriage if planning a serious commitment.

All the big wedding and over romance is modern bells and whistles

Marriage doesn’t give any rights over medical decisions. She could have insisted in being involved. Difficult situation but marriage isn’t the issue here- rather old fashioned ideas of medical staff.

But if your partner is the lower earner the benefit of any contract is his.

How do you know ops friend hasn’t made an informed choice?

Why don’t unmarried dads have PR from the moment of birth - because legally the state has no idea who the dad is.

There is nothing legally connecting the man and the women (other than some bloke who turns up at the labour ward and claims he’s dad - he could be anyone, if not in a long term relationship mums to be often don’t list anyone in then”dad” bit of the antenatal notes). Can cause Massive massive issues when mum is v unwell post delivery

and at the end of life how on Earth is the state supposed to “just know” who you want by your bedside, to arrange your funeral and get your cash? Clearly there would be outrage if banks just went around handing over the contents of dead peoples bank accounts to any random who walked in off the street and says “can I have all of my dead girlfriends money - she wanted me to have it”.

want to tell the state that your long term partner is your family? Get married. That’s what it is - legally declaring your significant other is family so they have the legal rights and responsibilities of being your family, not a party or a dress or bridesmaids or anything like that

(I am aware that there are ways to replicate all of the above with wills and LPAs and similar and if you wanna do it that way that’s fine as well but the simplest way is always gonna be to get married)

You clearly need to do more research then smarty pants .

Being married gives you fundamentally more rights

For MOST women . Maybe not you . But for the vast majority

But if your partner is the lower earner the benefit of any contract is his.

Potentially for this moment but life changes and you never know what's around the corner. Also, it smooths out pension rights and property etc.

If you're a team, having a contract is sensible as you navigate the highs and lows.

It's wasn't appropriate to comment on her life choices. I would have carefully approached the subject of the legal protection marriage gives, but you came across as judging her.

@SueVineer but it's not always as simple as that. People's earnings change over a life together. Also a woman might be a high earner but work part time and so have a smaller pension and of course illness happens.

The point of marriage is that if it ends a judge sits down and decides what is fair, especially to the kids. That fairness is often about the person who stayed at home and raised the children while the other earned getting a settlement ( usually the woman, sometimes the man, but that settlement is earned and allows the person without money to house the children.Without that 2 people battle it out on their own and the kids can be forgotten.

@SueVineer www.rethink.org/advice-and-information/rights-restrictions/mental-health-laws/nearest-relative-under-the-mental-health-act-1983/

well it does in mental health- a big role.

and yes if you are well enough to state whom your next of kin is when admitted to hospital you can say whomever you wish, if your bought in unconsciousness and haven’t changed your GP records since you started your current relationship don't be surprised if they call your parents not your parents (and all decent parents would then call you but not all parents are decent)

*unconscious
*parents not partner

urgh phone fingers

Well you are showing you are all those things though and you're increadibly bloody rude too to stick your nose in other peoples relationships and assume you know their finances..

I have seen devorce fuck far more people than a non married split.