Apparently I'm "old fashioned and anti-feminist"

[MVDC]

Because I told my friend who's thinking about TTC that she should seriously consider getting married first, even if it's just a register office job.

Apparently that makes me puritanical and woman shaming. Have directed her to the 4 threads I've read so far this morning where women had kids unmarried and are now getting completely screwed by their partners as the relationship breaks down.

I'm really, really angry. Not so much at my friend as at society who's convinced women that "cool girls don't need marriage" and I'm just... My coffee isn't Irish enough.

getting married - way of telling the state whom you want as your family

Great post from @Qazwsxefv

Would be great of we could move away a bit from the endless narrative of marriage being purely about romance.

This is why gay marriage was such a big issue!

Divorce costs. Fair enough to be in the deeds or tenancy but I don't think marriage is always the best way. Keeping your finances in order is more important and making sure you can provide for yourself.

I have seen devorce fuck far more people than a non married split.

This might be true but these people actively entered into a legal contract. Whereas remaining unmarried is the default so you don't always "actively" choose it unless you've sat down to properly consider the legal situation and have made the choice to remain unmarried IYSWIM.

my friends 21 year old has never had a job, shes just had a baby and is now living in his new house that his parents insisted on being in his name only (which is probably what id do)

Bit off topic but...am I reading this right..
You think women should get married to protect themselves before having children, but you approve of the man who is the father of your friend's daughters child keeping the house in his name only?
If my son had got a woman pregnant, and was living with her, I would expect him to be taking car of his family in whatever way he could and I definitely wouldn't want to screw over my own grandchild. But that's very MN , so I am probably in the minority!

I'm really, really angry - really, out of all the things you could be angry about you pick this….?

I'm divorced, have a child with my DP we've been together 4 years. I owned a house with ex, got half of it so me and my DP now rent, waiting for house prices to go down. My deposit will be more than his, I also earn more money, we both work full time. Getting married would benefit me how?

This. It totally depends on who holds the financial power in the relationship. Marriage is an important insurance policy if you earn less than your partner or you are planning to take time out to raise children.

If not you’re actually increasing your risk by getting married. In my situation I have savings and an asset in the shape of a flat. My partner has a good income but no major assets. If I married him I would be jeopardising my daughter’s inheritance. Makes no sense at all if you are a financially solvent woman who earns more than your partner.

I don’t know enough about your mate’s situation but people tend to parrot “get married” on here as if it applies to everyone when in fact it’s not always appropriate.

When he dies you if surviving will get a way better deal if you are married. He can leave his estate to you with no iht implications. There is no other way of achieving this. Writing a will cuts no ice in this regard.

I agree with your friend. I also think the expression ‘cool girls’ is often used as a put down for women who are good at running their own lives.

Not really though. In the hours and first few days after birth and in an NICU, the birth certificate isn’t done & registered yet and that is what grants an unmarried male partner parental rights. There is a gap of time where an unmarried partner would have no parental rights. If you’re a married couple, the man is considered the father unless the birth certificate later says otherwise.

There are things to that can't be replicated outside of marriage or a civil partnership. These might not be important/relevant to everyone, but they are to some, and are the driver for many marriages and civil partnerships in later life even when couples have been together for many years.

• inheritance tax allowances are transferable between spouses and civil partners
• right to a portion of a defined benefit pension upon the death of a spouse or civil partner

Re. LPAs - being married or in a civil partnership does not negate the need for these.

Some protections can be replicated outside of marriage or civil partnership but these can be changed unilaterally by one party (e.g. a will) unlike a marriage or civil partnership contract.

As Bananarama said, it's not what you do but the way that you do it.

Reading your post, I see your friend's POV 100%

"....she should" telling anyone they should do something. Hmm. Then proving a point by showing her 4 threads on MN? All sounds a bit extreme TBF.

Statistically women end up worse off but is purely down to mismanagement of a relationship. I've happily stayed unmarried and it wouldn't have made a jot if difference because we've structured our finances accordingly. Blaming married or not married because you've not set your stall out seems illogical.

Can I please ask, if you have a child and then get married a few years later. Do you still have the same protection you’d have if you married before having the child ?

Not all women are benefitted by marriage. Marrying my ex would have made me worse off, not better, so I’m very glad I didn’t.

Sometimes all getting married would do is make sure you get screwed paying for a divorce.

@SueVineer it's really not that simple. You're being ridiculously simplistic.

How on earth could she prove to the hospital staff that she was his long term partner ? In that moment?

His mother held all the cards and all
The sway. Had she been his wife - there would
Have been no difficulty, no awkward hurt feelings and no confusion.

All decisions would have been here. Full stop. Wife trumps mother. End of.

We eventually got married because it was cheaper than getting 2 wills drawn up. 🤷‍♀️

No kids anyway (fertility), but there is no way I would have kids outside marriage anyway.

Before I joined Mumsnet, I didn’t understand all the legal and financial implications of marriage, either.

Now, whenever I read about an unmarried, stay-at-home mum in an unhappy relationship, my heart sinks. It’s even worse if her OP is the sole owner of the family home. It’s such a vulnerable position to be in.

I agree. In the West & Middle East, marriage was a matriarchal tradition for a few thousand years before it became a patriarchal tradition. It earliest purpose was to protect women from feckless men by binding him to financially support her not just for marriage but for life as divorce was allowed by either party.

maybe not for you. You earn more, so would be at a disadvantage in a divorce. But it’s not always the case

if you earn less than your partner and you’re planning to have kids, marriage is good idea for you financially.

What does ‘my coffee isn’t Irish enough’ mean

@Peoniesandcream

are you just after financial protection or do you want your DP to be seen as your family in the eyes of the law.?

if you ever become unwell and need sectioning under the mental health act and want your DP sorting that out and not your parents/siblings/random cousin being consulted then marriage would help. Also you can be compelled to give evidence against your DP in court for the prosecution unless you get married

otherwise assuming you have done the below then you MIGHT have the same rights

• listed your DP as father on your DCs birth certificate
• your both on the tenancy
• updated your NOK details with your GP
• written an will giving your assets to your DP if that’s what you want
• written a will saying that DP can arrange your funeral (a relative will still usually be expected to register the death)
• sorted out your pensions to give the same benefits as if married

and a load of other stuff…..www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

I’d tell you to fuck off if you said that to me, I put 1/3 of the value of out home as a deposit, I earn more, and I will be going back to work. How would marriage benefit me?

Did you protect that deposit?

will you be going back to work if you have a disabled child who requires 24 hour care? Or a child that doesn’t sleep? Or if you have an accident and your ability to work is impaired as a result? What will happen if you are diagnosed with a serious illness and can no longer work? What happens if you find you need to care for an elderly relative, even for a short period of time?

It is great to be financially independent and the higher earner. But there are many life scenarios where financial independence isn’t going to help you. Your biggest mistake is to assume life will remain the same. It doesn’t and unfortunately, when the shit hits the fan, many relationships struggle and don’t last the course as a result. Marriage gives a level of protection to both parties, to the what ifs, the maybes and perhaps. It won’t necessarily make you better off if a partner runs off in your 30s. But it will undoubtedly help if life has taken a tough turn and it’s you that tough turn made vulnerable.

I know there are women with children who out-earn men, but in the overwhelming majority of cases, women are screwed financially if they have children and are not married. I'd have said the same, OP, and I am far from puritanical. I got married because I wanted to be a SAHM (and ex husband also wanted me to be), and I was bloody glad of it when I got divorced.

I guess you missed the part where OP said her friend outright asked her what she thought about having a baby...

Stop being rude for no reason