To ask parents of mixed race children…..

[SunsetOverTheBeach]

….. how do you deal with the upset caused by racist incidents?

My son is in his final year of primary. Over the past few months there have been a couple of incidents were racist comments have been directed at him without any provocation (confirmed by staff at school). Different kids each time.

The school have gone through the necessary formalities (officially logging incidents, informing parents etc).

My question is how do you deal with the distress it causes? As a white person born and raised in the UK this is new terrain for me.

He came home heartbroken today.

OK, several people have commented that my children must have experienced racism to an extent. Perhaps they have. Of course I can see this is a possibility. They may have experienced some micro-forms of racism that are subtle and not like the overt racism I mentioned before. I completely accept this.
I have spoken to them about racism and they both say they're not aware of any racism against them. I even felt like I shattered my son's innocence by raising the issue because it seemed to blow his mind that anyone would judge someone because of their skin colour. He kept saying "But why mum?" However, I still felt it was important to talk about it because obviously racism exists and is a very negative force in society. I fully accept it's something they'll face.
I truly believe that it hasn't been a big problem to date. I'd say a third of the children in their classes are are brown skinned. We live in an area with a lot of Hindus, Muslims and people of African descent. My children don't stand out for having darker skin. In fact they look more Greek or something than Asian (I don't know if this makes any difference to the racists though). The white children in the class have grown up being surrounded by many brown skinned children since they were babies really - certainly there was always a mix of skin colours from nursery upwards.
The parents of the white children at school I suppose would be described as "woke" (a term I despise) - certainly the sort of parents who would be mortified if their child said anything remotely racist. The sort of parents who'd go to great lengths to prevent it happening again. There's only one class per year in my son's school so I know the families well.
I've even spoken to teachers about racism (asking them if they see any racism at school) and they've said no, that the children are all mixing well and they don't notice any forms of racism. Some of these teachers have brown skin so they're not talking from a place of white privilege.
I do think we've been lucky so far and I've certainly heard of lots of racist bullying in other places so of course it's something I've been concerned about and will be vigilent in the future.

If you think a detailed account of the diverse and woke environment in which your kids are being raised addresses what’s being said to you, then you are not listening.

They may have experienced some micro-forms of racism that are subtle and not like the overt racism I mentioned before.

Do you know what a micro aggression is? And I’m not talking about a quick Google. Have you, as the white parent of non-white kids, done any labour to inform yourself about the many forms of covert racism and the profound, insidious impact that it has on the life, well-being and even health of minorities? If so, what have you done? As you are sounding fairly clueless right now.

Am I really sounding clueless?! I take offence to this. I feel I'm being quite reasonable in explaining my experience and I've used the words of my non-White husband and children who've explained their own experiences. I am aware of covert racism. It's something I've been interested since I was a teen really and a subject I explored repeatedly during my university years whilst studying sociology and psychology. I can send you my dissertation if you're interested! Ha!
I am sensitive to potential racism against my children and husband. I don't think anything I've said has been clueless. To date, I don't believe my children have been aware of any differential treatment against them because of their skin colour. I accept they might have experienced covert racism which they're unaware of. I'm only describing the experience of my family - my Indian DH agrees with this or do you think he's also completely clueless and oblivious? I completely accept it's something that might increase in the future.

Yes, you are sounding COMPLETELY clueless. If multiple POC are telling you so, perhaps ‘taking offence’ is the incorrect reaction. Do you care more about being right or about supporting your children? If the latter, I’d suggest you reevaluate your attitude.

You:

• Referred to micro aggressions as ‘micro-forms of racism that are subtle’ and cannot provide any more information on them.
• In describing racism against your husband, described only overt acts.
• Have stated, multiple times, that your mixed race children have not been on the receiving end of racism.
• Said: To date, I don't believe my children have been aware of any differential treatment against them because of their skin colour. I accept they might have experienced covert racism which they're unaware of. Which harks back to my previous comments.

It seems highly unlikely, based on the above, that you have done even the most basic reading on covert racism, much less studied it in an academic context. You don’t have the basic understanding of the concept, nor do you have the language.

MN can be a valuable learning resource if you’re willing to take on board what’s said to you. I’ve advised that you read up on this subject. If you choose not to, that’s on you, I suppose.

I don't think there is covert racism... Isn't it just racism? If my husband is treated with more suspicion as a black man than I am as a white woman... This is just racism. Not "covert" racism.

Maybe this type of thing doesn't happen to your husband as vile racial stereotypes differ but look at so much of the abuse levelled at Rishi Sunak and Sadiq Khan as high successful men!

@SallyWD

You are a white women who presumably goes out and about with your mixed race children. Has anyone ever asked you a version of "are they yours?" or asked your DC "is she your mother?".

If your response to this is just to say "yes" and assume they were just confirming identity, then you might need to wonder to yourself how often white women with white children are asked.

It’s all very much racism. Covert racism isn’t lesser or less important, it just has the quality of plausible deniability. The ‘I was just asking’ or ‘you’re being too sensitive’ wide eyed defence that screaming racist abuse from a moving van lacks.

Look at this, for example. It’s horrifying: www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/news-events/news/new-csi-report-on-ethnic-minority-job-discrimination/

And this: www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jan/15/black-women-in-the-uk-four-times-more-likely-to-die-in-pregnancy-or-childbirth

I did my degree 20 years ago. Maybe I don't use the current/correct language. Language is constantly evolving. Sorry if I haven't used the right terminology.
I've repeatedly said I accept my DH and children may be victims of covert racism. I don't doubt this. However the fact remains that my children feel they're not experiencing racism (maybe they are but this is how they feel). My DH moved here at 18 from southern Europe and we've discussed racism many times. He said he's experienced very little racism here (especially when compared to the country he grew up in). Now I want to emphasise that I KNOW he may have been the victim of covert racism many, many times. But it's HIM saying he hadn't experienced much racism here, not me as some clueless white woman - HIM. So OK, he could well be wrong about this. He could be completely oblivious and blind to it but if he is then he's blissfully unaware that he's a victim of it. I'm in no way undermining racism experienced in this country. Believe me, its something I've been interested in, studied and campaigned against for decades. I don't underestimate it at all - even though you think I do.

my children went to secondary schools where the demographic was 70-80% Black/Brown children...primary schools reflected this, diverse area of big city

they probably experienced overt racism first when they were about 6 years old. I was first aware of it from when they were about 6 months old

from adults, worst has been teachers, doctors, midwives, therapist....maybe just more impactful, rather than 'worst'

• If all you got from that comment was a critique of your terminology, you need to read it again.
• There's a pretty sharp divide between claiming to be engaged and interested in something and ‘I studied it 20 years ago, sorry if I haven’t kept up with it’. If your understanding of racism, covert and otherwise, is 20 years old, then UPDATE IT. Much like languages evolves, so do concepts. You should be aware of this.
• I talked about your descriptions of racism/racist acts against your kids and husband. I haven’t talked about your DH or his experiences at any point and I have no intention of doing so, so please don’t attempt to move the goal posts. I will not seek to analyse the experiences of another adult POC via a white third party - it’s a pointless exercise on every level.
• What I have sought to address, multiple times, is the reality of mixed race kids growing up in this country, right now. You seem either incapable or unwilling to engage with what’s being said to you and I’m finding it quite depressing at this point, so I’m going to bow out.

I was only ever talking about the experience of my family. The OP was asking for the thoughts of parents to mixed race children. I was sharing OUR experience only - never trying to extend this to other mixed race families. I felt we've been lucky (so far) not to perceive a great deal of racism.
I absolutely acknowledge the racism and issues facing other mixed race children and people of colour. I'm most definitely willing to engage on this. I'm sure you and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to this.

Seriously? Do you genuinely not understand anything that’s been said to you? Are you skipping paragraphs? What’s going on?

I agree with PPs that you lack a deeper understanding of racism....
It's great you and your children haven't encountered any overt racism...however...in the UK this is quite uncommon anyway...
It's the subconscious bias that is rife here.
Those same "woke" parents you refer to.....how many of those mums would feel more uneasy being stuck in a broken lift with a black man vs a white man...
How many would feel more comfortable having their operation performed by a white surgeon than a black surgeon...how many would feel edgy about renting from a black landlord than a white landlord....you see...these are the things that come into play....

I am a black british doctor...an NHS consultant...and I have been followed in shops by security (numerous times)..have been stopped at the door of conference events being told "sorry this event is for consultants"....I could write a book...has anyone ever called me the N word? NO.

Ps...yes...your children's proximity to whiteness will work in their favour...

People have raised points you’ve ignored, asked questions that you’ve ignored and made suggestions that you’ve ignored. We’re straying into wilful ignorance, at this point.

There is no OUR. You are white and your kids are not. Their experiences are not yours. You do not experience racism towards them ‘as a family’.

‘I absolutely acknowledge the racism and issues facing other mixed race children and people of colour. I'm most definitely willing to engage on this.’

You're willing to acknowledge and engage on racism and issues facing other mixed race children and POC, just not yours? Okay, then.

I agree with all you say and this discussion has been very interesting. I will try to pay more attention to the unconscious, unspoken racism that is at play. I think the main point I was trying to make is that we haven't PERCEIVED racism. Thinking on a deeper level I realise we have probably experienced the type of subconscious bias you speak of. I still feel pleased that so far we've been blissfully unaware of any I'll feelings directed towards us but yes - definitely need to be aware of the covert racism too.

No that's not what I meant at all. Your twisting my words. Of course I am willing to acknowledge any racism experienced by my own children. Of course I know I am white and they are not so our experiences are different. But as I said THEY say they have experienced no racism. I asked them about it several times because it's something that greatly concerns me. I have also acknowledged after this discussion that although they may perceive no racism they may have experienced the type of unconscious bias/covert racism that's been discussed in this thread.

I quoted your words verbatim. Not a ‘twist’ in sight.

Stop commenting and actually read and take in that’s being said to you.

I still feel pleased that so far we've been blissfully unaware of any ill feelings directed towards us

What’s just been described to you is horrific. The fact that it’s probably happening to your kids is horrific. Your ‘blissful unawareness’ of it is nothing to be ‘pleased’ about; and that was incredibly tone deaf thing to say to a Black person who just shared their experiences in a bid to help you understand.

And, again, stop with this ‘we’ nonsense.

I just don’t know, my parents asked me when I was a teen if I’d experienced sexual harassment - I said no as I didn’t want them to worry or stop me from going out. But the truthful answer was - yeah everywhere I go.

I have read every word that's been said to me and have considered them carefully. It's why I keep coming back to respond. The words you quoted were written in the following context - that my children and husband are not perceiving a great deal of racism but I fully acknowledge that other mixed race children are experiencing more overt racism. I was trying to say that I'm not denying others experiences and feelings of racism.
I wasn't saying I don't care about racism experienced by my own kids! Of course I do. It's unfair to suggest that.
They've been lucky not to experience a great deal of overt racism (they tell me) but as I say, this thread has made me consider in depth, other ways my children will experience racism.
And before anyone pounces on me (!!) - yes I have considered this before (many times) of course.

I know it was horrific! And very upsetting. Am I not allowed to say I'm pleased my children haven't yet suffered that type of discrimination? This whole discussion is about racism directed at our children.

THEY. HAVE. SUFFERED. IT. That’s what everyone is telling you. And the fact that you’re ‘pleased’ about being ‘blissfully unaware’ of it is the problem.

Your comments are so frustrating! It’s like, no matter how many people explain things to you, in however much detail, you steadfastly will not get the point. It’s genuinely making me want to scream. I assume other POC reading this feel similarly.

I have read every word that's been said to me and have considered them carefully. It's why I keep coming back to respond

You’re commenting, but you’re not engaging with or responding to what’s being said you, though. If you think you are, take it from the top and read everyone’s comments again. Including the ones clearly directed at you, that you’ve ignored. Sit on your hands, fight your clearly strong impulse to prove you’re ‘right’ and try to actually LEARN SOMETHING.

I’m going to step away, as I’m not sure I can be civil about this anymore. This conversation is horrible.

Could any POC/mixed race posters recommend any books/websites that they feel cover the subject of covert racism well?