To be glad that the Down Syndrome abortion appeal was defeated

[Fififafa]

A woman with DS has twice tried and failed to get the courts to outlaw abortion beyond 24 weeks for foetuses with DS. Under current legislation for England, Wales and Scotland, there is a 24-week time limit for abortion, unless "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome.
I read that she has is being supported by some religious group.

I’m glad that the appeal was lost. This is a personal decision that every woman has the choice and the right to make. What Heidi Crowter et al are doing, is fighting to remove that choice from women. AIBU?

@Differentnamedifferentplace I wouldn't call it unkind. I would call it profoundly manipulative and abhorrent. But we all know that the forced birther movement lies, and lies, and lies again to get what they want.

I agree with PPs who've mentioned that, statistically, very few women terminate after 10 weeks anyway, so clearly it's not the case that women are "waiting " . It's a horrifyingly awful thing to do and I mean that in terms of nobody is doing this lightly, it's hugely traumatic and I'm pretty sure very few would've chosen to be in such a heartbreaking space. But to take away that right takes women backwards and providing a safe procedure surely is better than the alternatives women will be forced to face.
I could say I'd never go through with a late termination but I've never been in that situation and I cannot know for sure. I definitely don't think this one woman's crusade is coming from a desire to make anyone's life better.

not DS, Cp.
so the law just needs to be up to birth. then the woman has a choice.

*Is that what you expect all women to do?

She has a right to an opinion like anyone else. And she believes that people like her deserve to exist.*

She can certainly believe that. She cannot try to force disabled children onto others. She should not be able to try and change the law when it comes to other womens bodies.

@Brefugee completely agree with you

I lost a twin pregnancy at 9 weeks and they were my babies
I’m pregnant again and my son is my baby even though he is not born yet

My friend terminated at 24 weeks due to medical reasons and she lost a baby

I think wording is personal and I am pro choice and I would never bat and eye lid or judge someone for saying they terminated a fetus

Completely agree, and to clarify I 100% support the outcome of this appeal.

But I don't like the slightly sinister tone thread is taking on about people with Downs who are low functioning - glib comments such as "they're not all like Alex off Coronation St" are not respectful or compassionate.

I think wording is personal and I am pro choice and I would never bat and eye lid or judge someone for saying they terminated a fetus

that's exactly my point. Legally the word is foetus. But we all have our own way of thinking about these things. And one person using one term shouldn't be used as a stick to beat another.

I had a MC with an accidental pregnancy that i absolutely didn't want. I'd just come to terms with having a baby and then i wasn't. Just as much a baby for me as the ones i gave birth to. But other people have other attitudes - and that's fine

Right up to the point of birth though? I find it very hard to imagine anyone leaving the decision this long - do people really abort this late when the baby could be born any day?

@Brefugee Sorry for your loss ❤️

Exactly, pro choice which means I’m happy with the wording that anyone chooses to use

This would be in a tiny tiny minority of cases, if at all. Perhaps a woman who thought she'd gone through the menopause and found out she was pregnant very late. I have no issue with termination up to birth in these circumstances, but then I have pretty extreme views on these matters, which also include allowing very disabled children to die.

Right up to the point of birth though? I find it very hard to imagine anyone leaving the decision this long - do people really abort this late when the baby could be born any day?

look if you can't be bothered to RTFT do us all a courtesy and fuck off don't post. This has been covered a billion times

That’s one of the most moving things I’ve ever read @SnotRag22. I’m so very sorry that happened to you. 💐

It is obviously a deeply emotive topic, but I am pleased about the decision today.

Because the woman (and her supporters) bringing this case would make one decision, that doesn't mean that decision is right for another person, and we must all have the right to make that choice.

They don't. But in a pregnancy, disaster can strike at any time and it can't be predicted. Hence the right up to birth. The vast, vast majority of the tiny number of post 24 week abortions happen in the earlier end of the time range. That's the whole point - we have to trust women to take good decisions for themselves and their families if they have one, in collaboration with their medical teams. We need to take abortion out of criminal justice completely and treat it purely as a medical issue.

I have a disabled child and it's not a easy life. My son goes to a fantastic school. But don't fool yourself that help falls in your lap. My child has a ok life because I am ferociously proactive.

Not all parents can do what I do.

What cost do you think my sons siblings pay for all of this?

If your not up to it and your forwarned why should this life be forced onto you and any existing kids. Sometimes I get off of the phone to my sons "professionals" and I weep in utter dispare. But I still get back up.

Why? I have no fucking choice. No choice.

I'm not some inspirational role model of this. I'm making it up as I go. Yes I've grown and learnt and become a better person. Did I want to grow and be a person. No. I did not

This is absolutely shit. Inspirational people saying it's wonderful. Most of them are talking shit.

Would I change my child? Never! Would I cure him? ( impossible) yes I'd take a bullet to cure him. "I don't choose this" is a stock statement I trot out a lot. A lot.

I understand all the devastating other diagnoses that can occur. But this ruling was specifically about downs wasn't it?

Don't worry, she's just advocating forced abortion for all pregnancies to those women there. Once she realises that's what she's saying, she'll stop.

I'm so happy she was denied!
She wants abortion up to BIRTH to be illegal. So a perfectly healthy baby with DS could be born and just left to die. It's barbaric.

I'm focusing on the ruling about downs specifically. You really don't need to be so rude and angry. It's a discussion not a fight.

I'm not sure it's accurate to say Heidi has a profound learning disability, she is married (which would indicate some degree of capacity otherwise she wouldn't have been able to lawfully marry) and lives semi-independently.

Again just to reiterate for the millionth time, I totally agree with the outcome of today's appeal and Heidi should not have the right to impose her beliefs on others, but let's not misrepresent her.

That does not happen unless a baby is extremely ill, in pain and there is no real treatment.

really good post. I think the same goes for a lot of us(apart from the sibling part and mine has not had it bad)
gonna hide thread now as some of the ways people speak about disability makes me sick,

This is incredibly sad - and I know you don't need my permission or approval, but for what it's worth I think you did the right thing - and you did it for the sake of your unborn.

Every now and then there is a huge news story about a court case where parents are fighting a hospital to keep a desperately ill child - one which has no chance of a full life - or even of a life free from constant pain - and while I can understand their motive, because this is their baby and they love her/him, they aren't really seeing clearly because there is so much emotion in the way,

To decide not to bring a child into the world when they have little chance of a good life is a difficult but courageous decision. Very few women will make it lightly.

BPAS - The aim of this case was to remove women’s ability to end much-wanted pregnancies post-24 weeks due to diagnoses of any “non-fatal” fetal anomalies.

This would force women to continue pregnancies where there may be multiple complex conditions and outcomes are unclear.

@ticktickticktickBOOM Heidi Crowter's campaign is backed by wealthy and influential anti-abortion campaigners from the US. These people are fundamentalist Christians whose ultimate goal is to make all abortion illegal. We have already seen what they've achieved in the US. They must be fought at every step. Because if this ruling had been overturned, there would have been another challenge, another chip in the wall of abortion rights. That's the context of all this.