To want my autistic DC to start reception in mainstream?

[Ambern7]

DC gets on well at mainstream nursery but is developmentally behind peers. I am not happy with the special needs provisions in our area so have opted for mainstream with good support in place through EHCP, which we fought hard for.
However, professionals involved keep asking me if we are sure we don’t want to go with the special provisions, they have listed lots of things they think are great about the school, however I don’t think the facilities will benefit my DC personally.
These unwanted opinions have got me second guessing something I was so sure of previously. I just don’t see the problem of starting off in mainstream and seeing how it goes, AIBU?

Ehcp is great on paper but in a main stream the actual support can be patchy typically the gap widens by the end of reception year when the early learning goals need to be met and for many main stream is more of a holding pen until special provision has space. The staff just don't have the skill, time and ability to support children with more complex needs so time is wasted while they stagnate. I've had one little boy who was starting pecs but school didn't carry it on....nobody trained in it...and spent most lessons out in playground with his one to one as he was noisy in class......frustrated..

Just wanted to echo what PPs have said about the risk that 1-2-1 assistants may not solely support your child in a mainstream primary. My friend’s DS had a 1-2-1 funded by the LA. She was used as the general class TA, and for a long time I had no idea she was meant to be his 1-2-1. She used to get presents from the whole class at Christmas. There were times when my friend’s DS would be left sat on his own in the school entrance while the 1-2-1 worked with other kids in the hall. This was clearly terrible on the part of the school, but is perhaps a risk as PPs have suggested? My friend eventually withdrew him, but then had to home school.

Parents i knew strongly resisted special school for their autistic DC.

The outcome was disastrous. He was miserable in ms even with 1 to 1, and it was then extremely difficult to get him a suitable place in special school.

Special school places are like gold dust. They won't be offering one up without good reason.

My eldest teen DD in yr 11 with autism and other needs has an EHCP needed a special school at reception year but it proved impossible to get her in one. Mainstream school has failed her really.

Currently it is an uphill struggle to get her into school and often refuses to go. I have to take and collect otherwise she would not go at all. In school refuses to do the work and spends a lot of time sneakily on her phone in lessons. Refuses to do homework and revision. Has not made friendships with her peers but tags onto a group of girls who are always in trouble. As a result of all of this I expect she will get 1 GCSE pass in a subject she is naturally good at without an effort but no passes in english or maths so will have to retake at college on top of a course which will cause more issues.

If we had been given an opportunity of a special school for her we would have taken it without question.

If he's "thriving" in a mainstream setting as you say, there's not a hope in hell of getting a specialist placement. You have to demonstrate that your child is failing in mainstream to be considered for a specialist provision. And that's why it's such a good idea to start out with specialist provisions if you think your child is going to need it anyway

Quoting this as I think it's a very important point and worth repeating.

I work in schools and I see many children with ASD separate from their peers, having 1:1 with an adult, and not mixing. Some of those children may have better experiences with other children in a specialist setting.

I'm glad you are not dismissing professional advice out of hand.
I did and wish I hadn't.
What I learnt was they don't offer SEN places lightly. When you get further in to the system you are going to meet dozens of parents spending years fighting to get a place in SN provision.

We finally agreed that a SN school was needed for our child in Yr 4. They got a place in time to begin Secondary.

The mainstream primary was great, wonderful staff (bar 1) thoroughly committed to making the best of things for my child. It was still an uphill battle despite a decent ECHP (we are in the legal profession and took specialist advice).

I would go back to those professionals and ask them to really spell out what their concerns are. Revisit the SN schools (all of them) and then review your plans. You might still decide to stay in mainstream.

My experience is years out of date. I was advised by the Ed psych (who must have been on glue) that my son should go to mainstream. So off he went with a statement detailing full time 1:1 support. The school couldn’t even cope with that so did 2 hours twice a week and the rest in nursery.

He became of compulsory school age the first term of year 1 so he was then full time. And all hell broke loose. By the annual review we had about 12 people round the table (always a sign something is going pear shaped). No- one suggested moving him so I rang the Ed psych after the meeting and asked her to reply honestly ‘do you think they are coping?’ no she said (ffs). Anyway he was in his wonderful special school by the January of year 1 and it was only really one term of damage (reception he was barely there).

Anyway decades later I work in a role which means I see autistic kids in mainstream fairly often. The children I worry about the most are those who are very quiet and very (outwardly) compliant. If they have significant language difficulties they will not be able to access the curriculum and the mainstream school staff, even if very well meaning, will not be able to support them to access the curriculum. They need a different curriculum. If very passive their response to being overwhelmed may be subtle and they may cope by shutting down until they no longer can.

So mainstream may be fine - but you may need to ask a lot of questions and keep a close eye. If your dd is very well behaved signs of distress & overwhelm may not be spotted.

It's worth repeating that it is almost impossible to recruit and retain LSAs in schools these days. Pay is so terrible, conditions are so terrible that most schools have a recruitment crisis and, whatever yhe EHCP says, whatever the law is, a school cannot provide 1:1 if they cannot get the staff. Those that can be found have no experience and no training.

If the option of specialist provision has been offered, I'd seriously consider it. Those places are never given to children who.dont need them.

As staff in a reception class, take the place at specialist. Not only could reception be a traumatic experience for him, it could impact the learning of the other 29 children in his class hugely. I currently have a child in my class who desperately needs a specialist place but his EHCP hasn't gone through, and I feel so bad for him. He doesn't understand what we need him to do and he doesn't benefit from the social side of mainstream at all. It is hard to watch a child who gets so distressed ehen they could be in a slower, more nurturing place.

I also agree with dangling. A lot of schools also can’t recruit general class TAs (no cash) so the named 1:1s end up doing class work as well (another danger of being quiet and outwardly compliant).

It's worth repeating that it is almost impossible to recruit and retain LSAs in schools these days. Pay is so terrible, conditions are so terrible that most schools have a recruitment crisis and, whatever yhe EHCP says, whatever the law is, a school cannot provide 1:1 if they cannot get the staff. Those that can be found have no experience and no training.

Also this. There arent any requirents for 1-2-1 support, and if your child struggles to access the main curriculum, he may end up sitting alone with an essentially untrained adult babysitting him.

Reception is eyfs but it is school. The children will be doing phonics, maths, and learning to write from day 1, it's done through play but there are goals to be met.

Listen to @Goatinthegarden what an insightful post

I see this among friends children with language delays ..beginning by year 2 to feel lonely and different even in very welcoming schools surrounded by well meaning children

Op look beyond reception

My 8 year old has high functioning asd and is now beginning to really struggle socially having been fine when younger

I mix a lot with parents of autistic children...by year 3 or 4 children are no longer able to cope
.
With children of higher needs the drift is clearer by year 2 or 3
.

If your child needs to move around a lot go and watch a year 1 class before you make your decision not reception. Reception is one year of play based Learning....after that it is intense pressure of formal targets and sitting down a lot.

As others outljnr there is a huge queue of children desperate to leave mainstream

I find this thread very interesting as among the autism families i know i would say the majority are either on their 4th or 5th school or desperate to find an alternative to unchosen forced home school as child is unhappy

Make sure the mainstream school has a good reputation with SEND, including beyond reception. Many schools simply can’t provide well for children with additional needs well enough despite EHCPs. At the school where I work we have a range of children with complex needs but it’s a passion of our head and we have a relatively healthy budget compared to many other schools. That said, many parents are still fighting for their place in specialist, particularly for the KS2 transition. Places are scarce. Good luck.

I wanted to keep dc in mainstream. It all depends on the individual schools.

She was thriving in primary but had a crisis after transition simply because they made no adjustments. I was told there was no need for an EHCP as they were meeting her needs ( they weren't) and she wouldnt get one anyway.

After a 2 year battle with the school the LA agreed with me. She now has 25 hours 1:1and is absolutely thriving again. Follow your gut. There are other issues in play such as finances and some schools arent objective about what is actually best.

None of the special schools around me offer GCSEs other than English or Maths. So why should academically able children lose the opportunity to get qualifications simply because they need learning support.

Another one here to say that you can't depend on your child actually receiving 1:1 support, even if it's funded by the LA. Many schools are having a terrible time recruiting TAs, owing to the terrible pay offered and the often very challenging working conditions.
How would your child cope in a MS classroom unsupported?

I have one DC in mainstream with EHCP and another who in specialist. I worry that we made a mistake long term about the DC in mainstream although he is more or less ok at the moment (and is academically able to access the NC). For all the reasons that recent posters have said. It really is harder than it looks. And specialist provision isn't even mentioned if there is a chance that your child can struggle through mainstream.

I work in alternative provision in secondary. Every single one of the children there has an ehcp and is waiting for a place at a special school. Some have been waiting 3 years so far.

Secondary special places are virtually non existant. If you can get a place at a special school for primary, grab it.

I fought to get my son into specialist provision and ended up moving him to mainstream. This was because the journey was too much for him and the setting wasn't great at all. I should add that this was a problem with one setting, not SEN schools as they relate to my son.

Mainstream has worked really well for him. He has some one to one support, an ABA therapist supports the school with his learning. This was difficult to arrange but we managed it in the end. His current school is flexible and has excellent understanding of his considerable needs. They listen to us as parents too.

Having said all that, if there was specialist provision suitable I would have sent him there but there wasnt. I just offer it up point out that mainstream for children with ASD can work well, especially in primary years.

I our area enhanced provision is becoming more and more popular. There are 2 or 3 discrete SEN classes located in a mainstream school. They function as part of the mainstream but have higher staff ratios, small numbers and an adapted curriculum.
Children can go to them for most of the day but spend time with their mainstream class as and when they are able.
Would something like that be available in your area op? It sounds like it could be a middle ground for you.

As others have said, recruitment of TAs is really really difficult right now. The ECHP may specify 1:1 but what happens if the school cannot recruit someone to fill this role? Obviously that is a worst case scenario but I do think it needs a little bit of consideration as it's not impossible.

The school shouldn't "share" the TA with others, but if there is another child with significant needs in the class, in practice this is what will end up happening.

Have the primary school said they are confident they can meet their needs? They are the ones I would listen to the most, as they are the ones who will be working with your child day to day, and presumably they have seen the ECHP?

I agree with others that you do need to think ahead about whether your child will cope in y2/4/6 etc.

But also how they will cope in a large class in eg y3, how they would cope if they didn't have a stable class teacher, how they would cope with another child with eg undiagnosed sen having a significant meltdown etc.

Offering a different perspective here… there is a child in my sons mainstream reception class who is SEN and is not coping. He can’t manage full days so is picked up by lunch still every day. He is overwhelmed by it all and violently lashes out at the other children. I don’t know if you have a job you need to hold down but there is no way this child’s mother could work as he’s barely at school. I would listen to the experts if I were you and put your child in the best place available to them and their needs.

I agree with this.
Reception and P1 is very different compare to upcoming years.
Children are expected to work more independently,, there's less play time and more sitting and sitting.
I'm talking from my own experience as my son is sen and going to the sen class and it does have a very good impact on him.

If there is any chance of a special school place, take it.

We have a number of children who have started in mainstream but it is not working for them. It is going to take YEARS for them to be given a special school.

As others have said, much easier to move into mainstream than out of it.

Hi op, I work as one to one support with children who have SEN in reception/year 1/ year 2. Based on my experience, if I ever had a child with additional needs I would fight to have them put into a SEN school. The provision in mainstream often does not meet the child’s needs.

I am currently working with a child who’s parents are desperately trying to move to a SEN school, but because they declined the initial opportunity at reception entry, they are now facing a wait of several years to try and get into a SEN school. Once children are in mainstream, it is really challenging to move to SEN.

Once activities in the school become more teacher led with more focused activities, the differences in development are highlighted and it becomes clearer that a child’s needs would be better met in a SEN setting - because nursery is so play based, it is less of an issue then.

I wish you and your little one the best 💐