To want my autistic DC to start reception in mainstream?

[Ambern7]

DC gets on well at mainstream nursery but is developmentally behind peers. I am not happy with the special needs provisions in our area so have opted for mainstream with good support in place through EHCP, which we fought hard for.
However, professionals involved keep asking me if we are sure we don’t want to go with the special provisions, they have listed lots of things they think are great about the school, however I don’t think the facilities will benefit my DC personally.
These unwanted opinions have got me second guessing something I was so sure of previously. I just don’t see the problem of starting off in mainstream and seeing how it goes, AIBU?

it is probably best to talk to other parents and see how they managed to get in and what their journeys were like.

Absolutely. Because different local authorities have different styles of special schools. Mine was mainly focused on autism along with a degree of learning disability. The more able are lucky if they were in a high school with a special needs unit.
The special school my dd teaches in (in a different authority) also caters for quite academic children. She has a class of the more able and teaches to gcse level.

So yes, local information is vital.

If they're recommending SS I'd take it, though know what you mean about provision. My ASD child is really struggling in MS ( just too noisy and busy) but doesn't qualify for any special provision as she's verbal and academically able.

With regards to mainstream, reception is one thing but year 1 is another.

Will your son be able to join in the phonics, maths etc sessions in reception? Is he able to hold a pencil/pen and form shapes? A lot of reception is play based but they still do lots of sitting on the carpet or at tables doing learning based activities.

I would want to know what he would be doing in these sessions. Will his 1:2:1 be joining him to help him navigate these or will he be taken off to a separate area to focus on other skills.

Have you looked at the eyfs framework to see what is expected by school age?

I understand why this could be the case but it doesn’t seem that fair on DC.

I very much doubt many SEN parents reckon the system is fair! We just navigate it as best we can.

Im a bit surprised at the negative experiences of mainstream tbh.

In my social circle most of the children have additional needs in varying forms and all but one are in mainstream and doing well. Support is critical though.

Dc have honestly thrived since the EHCP was put in place, she's on course for 9 GCSEs and she would never have had that opportunity in a special school. This is despite having complex needs and numerous diagnoses.

I think it must very dependent on the school itself and ensuring the EHCP is watertight. She has 1:1 and her ta is specific to her and has helped her come on leaps and bounds.

Of course, the vast majority of children with SEN are in mainstream - I seem to remember that the national average is around 1 in 5 children are identified as having SEN, and I would say that as a mainstream primary teacher it is usual to have at least 5 - 10 children on the SEN register at some level in a class of 30.

However, that doesn’t mean that mainstream is the right destination for a child with needs so significant that they have an EHCP with full time 1:1 in place a year before they are due to start school, especially where professionals are already talking about special school placements. That indicates a very high level of need, which makes it less likely that mainstream is appropriate in anything other than the very short term.

I think it can be simultaneously true that most children with SEN are in mainstream with reasonable success AND that special schooling may well be most appropriate fir the OP’s child.

It really depends on your child. I have worked with reception children in mainstream with ASD. Some cope really well, others don't. As PP's have said it is very difficult to transfer to SEN school once you're in the mainstream system. If you're being advised to think about special, I definitely would.
The academic differences won't be an issue in reception but moving into ks1 it will. Would he cope sitting at a desk for long periods of time? How is his communication? Can he follow instructions? How are his interactions with other children and adults?

I think it must very dependent on the school itself and ensuring the EHCP is watertight. She has 1:1 and her ta is specific to her and has helped her come on leaps and bounds.

A fair amount of it also relates to whether a reliable TA is actually going to be found and stay. Notwithstanding the attrition rate, it's probably easier when the TA is already in place then when one would have to be recruited, as there are at least some TAs already in their roles who like it and want to stay.

The system isn't set up to match the child with the most suitable provision. It's about crisis management and getting away with providing the least possible to save £££.

Sadly this is the crux of it. LAs do not have the funding to support dc in mainstream properly (there are thousands of teachers, TAs, LSA, SENCos doing their best, but......) but the LAs only have a fraction of the special school places needed.

Great post by @MilkToastHoney

Totally agree @autienotnaughty - I do wish thread like this got out into the media and 'the public at large' were more informed, and then horrified at the shocking underfunding of SEND provision and support.

It is true that professionals do not know your child well but they should have a good idea what children can cope in mainstream and which would not. They also know how scare SS places are. So if NHS professionals are encouraging you to consider SS, it is significant.

DS3 is thriving in a supportive MS secondary with an excellent EHCP and MS is very much the right place for him, but ”However, that doesn’t mean that mainstream is the right destination for a child with needs so significant that they have an EHCP with full time 1:1 in place a year before they are due to start school, especially where professionals are already talking about special school placements.” this is very true. Professionals don’t suggest SS from reception unless they think it is necessary.

My DD is in year 3 now. I pushed for her to enter and remain in mainstream. I had to lodge a tribunal appeal to enforce her right to it. She is thriving and the best thing I ever did.

YANBU

I had a similar fight placing my now 12yo in mainstream, but I wanted him to have the chance to be part of the local community. I always knew that mainstream wouldn't be forever but it was still the best decision for him at that point.
Saying this the local mainstream primary is small, one class.per year and very much a community.
My son had full.time 1:2:1 and was fully accepted by the other children. When he started reception he was functionally non-verbal and still wore pull ups. His dx was GDD, learning difficulties and severe asthma, over the years ADHD and ASD have been added to the list.
Yes he was always socially and academically way behind the rest of his class but the school did so much to integrate him. He's now in a special needs secondary school but is still.in contact with all his friends from primary, young adults that go out of their way to maintain the friendships.

I have only read your posts but our experience is as follows.

with Ds starting mainstream primary was never in doubt, he got an ehcp in year 1 and was diagnosed with autism in year 2. (He also has other complex needs) from year 3 he has had full time 1-1 (make sure that the 1-1 provision is clear in the hours it is for)

all professionals told me he wouldn’t manage at mainstream secondary, except for the senco from his primary who knew him well. I looked at all the local specialist provision and there isn’t any locally that I felt could meet his needs, I think visited his current mainstream secondary and he has thrived there. He still has 1-1, he still have massive issues socially and emotionally but academically he is able to keep up with his peers with the support he has in place.

personally I don’t see it as a specialist v mainstream but just finding the right setting for the individual child. The other schools I looked at are amazing for some children with different needs just wasn’t right for ds.

he is in year 8 now and I don’t know what is to come in the next few years, but if it goes wrong I know he won’t go to one of those specialist schools I will fight for an EOTAS package for him instead

I say this kindly but if multiple professionals are suggesting specialist provision from reception, perhaps child's needs are greater than you perhaps realise?

My son also went from mainstream primary to specialist secondary. Not going to lie it was as much of a fight as getting him in to mainstream primary in the first place.
We started by contacting the local specialist and mainstream schools and working out which was the best placement for him. We knew mainstream wasn't but needed something from the actual school saying that they couldn't meet his needs.
We then requested special school at his transition ECHP. Unfortunately the LA refused, we then went to tribunal where the LA offered him a place in an Independent Special Needs Secondary that fit his needs perfectly. They did this 10min before the actual hearing much to the judges disgust.
Our experience of all this was severely hampered by covid, normally you'd start the process end of year 5 start of year 6, but we were unable to look around any of the schools until near the end of year 6.
He did end up losing (yet another) 6 weeks of school at the start of year 7, but it was worth the fight and I still absolutely believe that we made the right decision with him going to mainstream in primary and then special in Secondary.
One aspect of special school that often is forgotten is that the children often have to travel far out of area to attend meaning they don't have the same ties with their local community. My son is known (and accepted) by children in the local area in a way he wouldn't be if he had gone to special school from day 1 (which was one of my main reasons for wanting him to go to the local school)

Thank you for this.
We are very fortunate that there is a wonderful secondary special school in our town that specialises in children with ASD. I'd love him to be able to go there. It's a local authority maintained school, not an independent so I'm hoping that goes in our favour somehow.

One thing you need to be mindful of in sending your DC with additional needs to mainstream is what happens if your DC is unable to cope.

My DC was fine in a mainstream private nursery because it was all learning through play free flow. Other than lunchtime, when they all sat around the table at the same time, DC could pretty much get up and do pretty much whatever they wanted all day long.

While they do still learn through play at reception, your DC will be expected to follow the routines, sit quietly for phonics etc. Someone here will know better than me, but I understand mainstream schools can say your DC can't come if they are disrupting other DC learning. I see on MN all the time DC with SEN who are unable to attend school while they wait for a specialist place, and have to stay home.

As a single parent, I couldn't risk my DC being in an environment with such high stakes if it went wrong, as I need to work full-time to pay the bills, and I wouldn't be able to stay home waiting for a new place for them.

If you hadn't already, it's worth considering plan b, in case mainstream is too much for your DC.

@Ambern7 sounds like a good plan. Unfortunately what we are telling you here isn't the worst case scenarios. It's the norm. Your already advocating for your child that's what you will need to continue to do. Good luck .

Schools can only tell pupils already on roll they can’t attend if they formally exclude. Many of those situations on MN are where the school has illegally excluded DC.

Just to be clear, it’s two professionals who work together who have mentioned SEN schools a few times. EP suggested mainstream, but that seems pretty standard all round. Haven’t seen any NHS professionals, so they’ve had no input.
Quite a few posters have referred to DC having significantly high need and I think someone said maybe I don’t realise.
I don’t know to be honest, like many children with autism, they can do really well in some areas and struggle in others. And some days are better than others too. We have fought very hard to get the EHCP in place and are prepared for any other battles needed to get what DC needs. They idea of being stuck in mainstream however does not sit well with me, so it’s something to consider.

@Ambern7 is he old or young in the year? What is his behavior like around other children? When you say he is behind developmentally, in which areas? How does he cope with changes, lunch, changing his clothes etc?

We had an infinitely better experience in ms than ss. In fact I removed dc from ss because his experience was so below what was acceptable. I think it very much depends on the individual schools involved.

No one knows your child better than you.

What I would say is trust yourself whilst taking advice from specialists.

They change so much too during the early years and to be honest it's secondary that gave me the biggest angst after my DD13 doing really well in MS primary.

What I realised was that MS primary worked ok for her but her tolerance for noise was getting worse so for secondary I took a different path to get her into a small all girls school with small classes and great pastoral care.

You really have to think about this in stages. I am not a massive fan of the SS system, it feels too broad and basic to me.

Take special provision if it's offered. My DD1 has been in special provision since age 4. It was hard to get them, almost impossible now.

In my LA, there is a specific question on annual review documents asking if the child could move to mainstream.

DD2 got her EHCP this year in year 11. Finally, she's in the right place, but it's taken years of struggle.