David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

@BloodAndFire While I admire your scholarship, this is pretty much the definition of pearls before swine. You're making fine theological points to an audience of rabid antisemites.

I disagree. My sense is that there are a couple of rabid antisemites on here making a lot of noise, and a much wider audience who are generally interested, some more and some less knowledgeable, who don't have access to much of the information and really want it. I see no point engaging with the antisemites, I could do so until the cows come home. But there is a much wider audience out there. I think the antisemites are making you so upset (understandably) that it is hard for you to see that actually that is not everybody on here by any means, just a few bad apples. We need all the allies we can get. And there are sensible people on here trying to understand - I am trying to talk to those while ignoring the others. The others won't go away, they never do. 3000 plus years should have taught us that. But 3000 plus years should have taught us that there are also some amazing allies out there.

I’m so sorry. I had no idea things were that bad. It’s not acceptable to just accept anti-semitism

But there is a much wider audience out there.

De-lurking to say, I doubt I am the only one who has been lurking on this educational thread.

Thank you, and thank you @amcha for your comment which I take on board and appreciate.

Your Talmudic knowledge is WAAAAAAAAY superior to mine - I speak from the perspective of someone who is thoroughly and totally culturally and genetically Jewish, but not much of a scholar (in that direction).

You're right that the gleeful antisemitism that has run rampant on this thread is getting to me personally - of course it is, and I'm sure they will be delighted to know that. I came off Twitter for this reason ages ago. But I was really appreciating and enjoying this thread for a long time before the balance tipped.

Even if you ignore the rubbish baddiel spouts

This so-called "rubbish" that Baddiel spouts actually seems to be the lived experience of a huge number of British Jews who have been trying to deal with antisemitism from the left, often a natural political home for Jews. They're used to racism from the right (e.g. Boris Johnson), in fact they probably expect it, but it's more bewildering from (often the far) left, many of whom seem to shout VERY loudly about their apparent anti-racist credentials. I've been in these circles, I've heard them, and it's appalling. Baddiel's main arguments are what these Jewish people have been trying to articulate for the last 5 or 6 years, but they keep being told to effectively shut up. Put yourself in their shoes, just for a moment.

They have been telling you (on here and elsewhere with evidence) that he's not "wrong" but you seem to know better than them?! The arrogance and rampant antisemitism from you and others on this thread is quite spectacular and you're detracting from many other non-Jews on here who genuinely want to learn and understand.

As a Jew, I am not shocked. We have decided to send DD to a non Jewish school, because we were so worried about safety. We are more cultural than religious, but both DH and I went to faith schools and we are sorry that we did not feel able to do the same for our DC. We are doing all cultural learning at home and with their grandparents and DD goes to cheder. I am glad that antisemitism is being highlighted though.

Why doesn’t it make sense ? Israel is an expansionist country and has shown little regard for the Palestinians as they have encroached on territory they have no claim to. Any criticism of what the Israeli government is doing is met with accusations of anti semitism. I am not for one second suggesting that Jews everywhere are complicit in this, but to suggest that they are the victims is ridiculous.

Many Jews are critical of the Israeli government.

The name changing factor was the main thing I took away from it. I wondered if there is a movement for Jewish people to reclaim their original surnames/names that were, sadly, changed by past generations, in order to hide their origins?

I absolutely agree. But what about those living in Israel ? They can’t be unaware of what’s happening. And what I find incomprehensible is a race of people who have been persecuted in the worst ways possible, exhibiting such aggression against people who have just as much right to exist as they do. The world has stood by and watched the State of Israel persecute the Palestinians and have said and done nothing.

@Rosscameasdoody he hasn't apologised to my community - ever.

So it's not utter bollocks. He didn't just have one victim that he only apologised to in person now after decades. (when doing this documentary.) - funny that.

As with anti-semitism an aggressive word or set of behaviours can and does lead whole communities to feel frightened or "othered"

When you are part of my community and you see many occasions of that person doing exactly that to our community & it being on tv & that self same person celebrated & given a documentary & a best selling book. It's scary & frightening.

Jewish people have every reason to be afraid & deserve to be heard.

The despicable vile racist Baddiel is not a comfortable voice of choice for the Roma community. Or I'm sure many people of colour from the black community or any of the other myriad of minorities he has targeted in his long & illustrious career.

His message sounds like more rabid racism.

Maybe in much the same way as some posters on here see anti -semitism despite it being thoroughly called out. Accusing others of hate speech etc etc ?

I see Baddiel open his mouth and I hear his hate & hear his laugh.

@amcha & many others. I'm very much finding great interest in your thoughtful & considered posts. It's very educational & has prompted me to want to read further information. So thank you for that.

I was just thinking how interesting it was.

Yep, the psycho Netanyahu has just been re-elected. Israel is nothing more than an Apartheid state. @Rosscameasdoody.
just watched the vile Israeli ambassador to the UK on channel 4 news.

I've often wished that I'd changed my name back to my grandpa's and dad's birth name rather than the anglicised version, but I'd already published / established a career using the 'English' version. Our surnames don't go back that many generations though. I visited the village in Poland where my surname originated a few years ago. It's a pretty desolate place. But so are most of the previously Jewish towns in that part of the world- Jews were 10% of the Polish population before ww2, up to 90% in some áreas and they were all murdered, in their millions.

Same. @amcha I appreciated your two replies this morning and appreciate your last. This has been an interesting thread, following the CH4 program last night.

Not sure how much more i can take of the hate on here so if I disappear thank you @danceyourselfdizzy1

You're a good 'un x

@BloodAndFire I thought you said you were leaving the thread a few posts back!

So are you (a good 'un) @Lunar270
If your username is a zodiac reference then I'd like to wish you an early Xīnnián hǎo or kung-fu hey fat choi for the year of the 🐇

Hi again @Holidayfinder
Do you have a problem with Jewish people posting on a thread about antisemitism?

I don't know if schools do this but I was at grammar school in the 60s, it wasn't a religious school as such but was sort of the go to grammar school for Jewish, Muslim and Catholic families. On a Friday the Rabbi, the Imam and a nun from a local came and did RE and a religious assembly with "their" kids. A Catholic priest used to come in once a term and say mass in the small hall.

As a child from an Irish family, one half Catholic and one half protestant, I thought my school really did integration really well. In my form we had 3 Catholics, one Muslim and one Jewish girl, one atheist (from an atheist family) one Sikh, one Jehovah's Witness as well as a variety of Christian denominations including CofE and Methodist (probably more that I don't remember.)

It had lots of positives.

I agree that integrated rather than religious schools are generally a better idea, and as a mixed faith family, I'm very happy that my children have friends from literally every religion I can think of. We need more not less interfaith and intercultural understanding .

@BloodAndFire None whatsoever! It’s just you keep doing the drama lama thing of saying you’re leaving the thread but don’t 😀

The world has stood by and watched the State of Israel persecute the Palestinians and have said and done nothing.

Really? People have said nothing? Well I must be imagining all those people who are disproportionately obsessed with Israel (I watched some of them hound a young Jewish guy out of a CLP meeting, literally held him to account for the actions of a country he'd probably never been to, in front of a whole meeting - I have never seen anything like it). Yet these people don't seem to hold places like Saudi Arabia, Putin's Russia or Assad's Syria with the same passionate contempt.

While I'd like to think it's about genuine compassion and worry for the Palestinian people (the people, not their leaders) and for a lot of people it genuinely is, for many, many more it's something else. Just can't quite put my finger on what the something else is.

Yes,I said I was leaving the thread because i was finding it extremely upsetting. I came back to it because it seemed a shame to let a thread with lots of valuable posts be taken over completely by antisemites with nothing of substance to say.

After several years of being jeered, mocked, abused and insulted for being Jewish both on and off line, I don't always find it that easy to cope with, emotionally.

Sorry if you find that difficult to understand and impossible to empathise with.

@danceyourselfdizzy1 I've read my posts back and they are not antisemitic. Baddiel will never ever be able to rebrand as the 'voice of reason' in my eyes, nor his current position as a figure of antiracism. You can't don blackface and apologise when it's finally expedient to do so. I don't doubt that many jews on this thread and in turn in real life have experienced antisemitism. I haven't claimed that to be the case. On the contrary I have pointed out public figures who have been unabashed in their antisemitism.