David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

Well, I guess people can choose what to believe.

On the one hand, your post here.

On the other hand, all of the evidence posted here, the EHRC report, the removal of the whip, and the first-hand experiences of I and many many other posters, both Jewish and non-Jewish, of antisemitism within the Labour Party (and outside it too).

Tough one but everyone can make up their own mind.

@RedWingBoots I disagree with you. JC has stood in solidarity with Jewish people many times! Amazing how all of those accusing Labour of being anti semitic under Corbin chose to completely ignore the rampant racism in the Tory party!!

I have never ignored the racism in the Tory party. So why are you linking my comment about JC and SK individual behaviour to Jewish people to it?

You disagree with:

• her
• me
• all of the other many Jewish and non-Jewish people on this thread, many of us Labour Party members or ex-members who have given detailed first hand accounts of the antisemitism we've experienced
• the Equalities and Human Rights Commission
• the Labour Party whips
• and all of the Jewish newspapers, websites, synagogues, and community organisations in this country.

I wonder what makes you think that your evidence-free assertion holds any weight at all. And how incredibly, ridiculously dismissive, ignorant, insulting and racist it appears.

Thank goodness he didn't get in for a variety of reasons but that's one of the big ones.

It good to know that Starmer isn't as far as you know. I'll check my local constituency. It'd be great to have options but not at any cost.

Really interesting thread.

I've not much to add other than I am very sorry that such anti-Semitism is experienced on a day to day basis for people. I can honestly say that in my circles I have never heard anything that I would consider to be anti-semitic but it's making me think I haven't been listening so I will pay more attention.

Also, I don't have particularly lefty-left social groups, people tend to be normal left- centrist - conservative so maybe it isn't so prevalent?

I also hold no real opinion on Israel / Palestine as it just looks way too complicated to form a coherent view without intense study.

But anyway, for those who experience this, please be assured that there are many people for which this is not the norm.

I live in a fairly Jewish (and hindu and muslim) part of North London. The synagogues always have security outside when a service is on which we don't have for local churches. I don't think we have too much trouble on the whole but it certainly is important to keep anti-semitism and all other discrimination in check. I am a supporter of Israel (which I know is a separate issue) and also a Tory and capitalist (and Christian).

We are all different things but have to try to live together and not tolerate any discrimination so well done to the person mentioned above who stood up to those children on the bus who were shouting at the jewish children.

The only bit of that that I can't agree with is the accepting of other people's truth for other minorities.

I'm in a mixed marriage, I'm white and he isn't, less of an issue now but worse back when we were young. I have been on threads on here where I've mentioned problems with neighbours or visiting a tourist place where we were clearly discriminated against and it was all explained away, I misunderstood, these things happen to everyone, I'm exaggerating, I'm looking to take offence. So no I can't agree that other people's truth would just be accepted.

I can also contrast how these things just don't happen to me if I am alone or out with white friends so I don't think I'm imagining them.

@BloodAndFire

Did you give a moments thought to the fact that an openly islamaphobic pm was elected? Or were your tears & worry only for yourself.

I was in scotland crying at the thought of Boris being elected. The poverty, the racism, the blind hatred of Muslims.

Genuine fear.

That's part of the problem with Baddiel and many other commentators on race or ethnicity.

Only caring about themselves & the bigotry & hate that they face. Whoopi Goldberg an example. Her statements were jaw dropping. Kanye west is despicable.

Corbyn was a far better & safer bet than Johnson for the majority of people in the Uk. Although he should take a long cold hard look at his bias's

The fact that those two were the choice is a large part of why I support Scottish independence.

Thanks @amcha for taking the time to provide all that. It's much appreciated.

I'm going to read and reread but it's astonishing on first glance and am amazed how the hate perpetuates to this day. Depressing.

Exactly!
Can you imagine if a leader of a political party did not accept the findings of an INDEPENDENT report by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission if it was about the party's/leader's treatment of members of the for eg the black or muslim community?!
And party members/supporters repeatedly & aggressively trolled social media with the #itwasascam hashtag?!
But if it's re Jews that's OK perhaps, as #jewsdontcount?!

JC may have been nice to some Jewish people every so often, but that does not mean he was not strongly Anti-Semitic at other times.

The people crying about corbyn getting in didn’t give a flying fuck about inflicting the most right wing Tory government we have had in years on us!
That makes me fucking angry!

If Labour get in at the next election we would have a very clever, successful, attractive Jewish woman in 10 Downing St. She seems to avoid publicity and I don't know if she is religious.

@Holidayfinder you have a right to be angry at the current government.
But not the right to support a leader who was clearly Anti-Semitic and to deny that he was, despite an independent report.

@ancientgran Well as a life long Labour voter I won’t be voting for Starmers LP.
May as well just vote for the tories.
His latest dog whistle about immigration was utterly reprehensible.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I was in scotland crying at the thought of Boris being elected. The poverty, the racism, the blind hatred of Muslims.

Boris had many faults but this perception that he was racist because of the article he wrote using the 'letterbox' phrasing was the reason that started. I don't think anyone bothered to read the article. He was defending women, defending liberty and discussing the banning of the burkha in Denmark. You can decide whether criticizing a religion for the oppression of women is Islamaphobic (which is what he did do but also go on to say that he doesn't support a total ban on the burkha because that is an over reach and women should have the right to choose) But is it OK for a religion to oppress women? That's up to you. if you don't think it is OK, does that make you an Islamaphobe?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/05/denmark-has-got-wrong-yes-burka-oppressive-ridiculous-still/ Original article

Anyway, as you were.

I and many other Jewish posters share our experiences of direct antisemitic attacks on us and our children and you call it 'crocodile tears'?

So fucking sick of these racist bullying cunts. So fucking sick of them. Thank you to all of the decent human beings on this thread. Love and solidarity to you all.

And no @beachcitygirl I don't 'forgive you' and no other human being with a shred of decency would forgive you for that infinitely cuntish statement either. 💀

Explain crocodile tears
do you not believe anti semitism exists?
or is it that it’s not as bad as “proper” racism?
or is it that Jews can’t complain?

Yes please, beachcitygirl. I'd like to hear what you meant by 'crocodile tears' too.

Look, the anti-semites will always be with us - do you know where this comes from?

"He said to his people, "Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more numerous and stronger than we are. [BTW classic racist trope - they are small minority but numbers massively inflated in the eyes of the bigot]

Get ready, let us deal shrewdly with them, lest they increase, and a war befall us, and they join our enemies and wage war against us and depart from the land."

Famous commentary
"and depart from the land: against our will. [but this can be interpreted] as a person who curses himself but ascribes his curse to others. And it is as if it were written: and we will depart from the land, and they will take possession of it."

And this:

"There is a certain people scattered and separate among the peoples throughout all the provinces of your kingdom, and their laws differ from [those of] every people, and they do not keep the king's laws; it is [therefore] of no use for the king to let them be.

If it pleases the king, let it be written to destroy them, and I will weigh out ten thousand silver talents into the hands of those who perform the work, to bring [it] into the king's treasuries."

Any guesses?

Jews have right from the beginning been "othered" - been the stranger, the one who was ethnically different, religiously different - it is part of what it means to be a Jew. From a theological standpoint it can be seen as a large part of the fundamental job description, simply by trying to live your life you are the canary in the mine (that, by the way, is one bit of what they tell prospective converts - you really want to put yourself in on this!). The dream of the secular Zionist was to have somewhere where they were not othered, somewhere they could be normal. Man proposes and G-d laughs.