David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

hamstersarse, that is correct re BJ, although it does not much matter now what people thought as he has gone.

On the issues of discrimination more widely sometimes people at all periods of history have not liked people who are different from how they are. It probably stemmed from when we were hunter gatherers and you trusts those you knew and were likely to be stabbed by those you did not. It is not 100% how people are and ideed my own ancestors are 3% neanderthal who bred with homo sapiens either voluntarily on both sides or not.

If you couple the distrust of "the other" with the other being better off eg Ugandan Asians, Sunak, some jews v the white working class (or poor Catholics v rich C of E back in the day) that tends to make those less well off even more unhappy with the richer other so it becomes not just a discrimination issue but a money issue too.

All we can do is try to treat others well and bring up our children to do so too. I am lucky that my parents survived WWII and had that mentality that the UK almost alone amongst the European nations stood up in effect against the menance aiming to discriminate in the worst ways possible against Jews, Roma, homosexuals and many others. IN a way the UK in Europe were the best in the whole area and saved Europe with the help of the US and do not want antyhing like that o happen again. it may be why people flock here - we have 18m more people than when I was born, 1m illegals, 100,000 asylum seekers, 240,000 net lawful migration , double the population of the whole of Canada in a very small land. So we are having accommodate a lot of people in a very small land space. However this is getting off topic as the UK has 200,000 jews, but 2m muslims and a lot of Christian immigration too. We are certainly very popular as a nation at present.

The argument Baddiel makes is that Jews are not considered a minority that suffers prejudice. The pathetic argument that antisemites try to punt is that, instead, Jews have some sort of behind-the-scenes network of capitalist control. And they are also a behind-the-scenes network of communists.
And people are starting to fall for this bollocks again.
My Dad was Jewish. He was the wartime generation. This shit is a tale as old as time with occasional blips of tolerance for Jewish people.

Baddiel has acknowledged much of his own prejudicial language and actions. He needs to keep doing so as any public figure should. Doesn't negate the accuracy of his message.

mumsnet. If you delete the anti semiotic post we’ve all challenged how can we call that poster out? How can we show what they really mean?

I know it’s offensive, but I’m not sure deleting it so it can’t be challenged is the right approach

I agree @FloydPepper

I'm saddened that there have clearly been a lot of anti-Semitic comments, that have had to be deleted.

I watched the programme, and I do agree with it. Racism against Jews is not regarded in the same way as racism towards other minority groups.

I absolutely believe anti-semitism exists and is on the rise & should be challenged and fought on all fronts. I found the post by @BloodAndFire where she talked of her tears at the though of Corbyn being elected as awful & called it crocodile tears because the option in that election was a racist homophobic islamophobe.

We should care and fight all racism on every front & yes anti-semitism is racism.

I do not deny her or anyone's fears were real but found her complete and utter lack of awareness that some of us were utterly terrified of the opposite to her.

That fear came true & has been horrific for immigrants & refugees in the Uk.

@BloodAndFire I don't need acceptance of apology from you. I didn't ask for it.

The fact that we had an PM who had said such offensive and racist things about people, spoke volumes to me about how racism is viewed here, and how certain minorities are thought of.

Thanks @beachcitygirl for responding

i think your “crocodile tears” comment wasn’t clear and could be interpreted as meaning Jews being upset wasn’t valid. That’s how I read it and what I was challenging.

you’ve been clear what it meant. I do understand how awful a choice BJ was as PM and how that felt for minorities. I’m still not sure calling upset at the prospect of an anti semite in power are “crocodile “ as that implies fake, invalid. The posters fears were the same as yours and equally valid.

id still like to understand why you feel her fears to be fake?

Except we didn't vote for BJ. None of us had a say. He just turned up like a bad penny.

If both he and Corbyn were the choice, I'd vote green or something. In fact I did last time as I couldn't stomach either.

@ancientgran I am sorry for your experiences. I meant that certain people on the left of the left who wave their anti-racism credentials are the ones guilty of not accepting a jewish truth. Feeling that you are suffering from hate and telling that truth being met with ambivalence at best from those who claim to care is the crux of the programme.

Completly agree with you@beachcitygirl!

@beachcitygirl taking what you say about Johnson and the conservative party as fact (which I don't), would you have said similar to a Labour voting muslim if Labour would have won and felt relieved? Throw the jews under the bus because the muslims will be ok under Labour?

@Lunar270 I hear you. But in 2019 it was clearly obvious where the Tory leadership was headed. Boris was in a position of real power, the tories were in bed with Farage. The uk felt & feels frightening.

Once again. Jewish fears are real & valid. They are neither less nor more important than other forms of racism.

We should ALL stand United against all targeting of minorities & I agree the tropes against Jewish people has made anti-semitism particularly insidious & difficult to discuss.

I welcomed a documentary but I do think Baddiel the wrong voice: the memory of his vile racist behaviour is still very raw to many of us.

And to coin a phrase from @BloodAndFire no I don't forgive him. Not that he asked (for 25 years) . 💀

Yes.

Racism to all and everyone is vile.
Those choices, Labour under Corbyn & the tories are (as I said previously) a large part of why I support Scottish independence

Anyone who would be happy to see another minority thrown under a bus to suit themselves is beneath contempt.

Again thanks @beachcitygirl for engaging

I do think the choice of “crocodile tears” wasn’t a great one and whilst I can see what you meant, I think it wasn’t clear, and the phrase was quite provocative.

on the BJ vs JC point. I’m a straight white non Jewish middle aged bloke with all the privilege going, and I was horrified at that choice. Anti Muslim and gay vs anti Jew. It’s horrific that was the choice we had and it’s horrific one was elected.

I don’t think blood was dismissing your fears by being upset about one possible outcome, nor do I think she was saying the other outcome was a good one. I do think you were unfair to characterise those fears as insincere on a thread specifically about anti semitism, but I can see how your fears may have felt dismissed.

I guess I’m thinking we need to watch our language and be clear what we’re saying

Well said.

Great post @FloydPepper

I am a bit disappointed that people (on 'my' twitter, at least) seem to be drowning out Baddiel's valid points because, yes, he did do a racist and wrong thing that he wasn't sufficiently called on at the time. It was a very wrong thing to do but doesn't invalidate every point he may make about antisemitism.

I am Jewish and I've not read the book/seen the prog yet though would like to do one or both - I suspect I might find him protesting too much on some points, but it sounds to me that a lot of what he said is salient.

BloodandFire never expressed the slightest support for Boris Johnson or the Tories. She said she was a Labour Party member who felt forced out by antisemitism.

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The documentary disappointed and distressed me because Baddiel has a long history of not just black-face but slurs against the Roma community against the Eastern European community as trashy (comparing to prostitutes) criticism of a black man's hair.

What is distressing is that none of this has harmed his career one iota. He is allowed absolutely to talk about racism, but his words are somewhat invalidated by the fact that he seems to suggest that islamophobia and anti-blackness don't enjoy a privileged position in our society.

There has been such privilege for Baddiel PERSONALLY that despite his history of racism he has been allowed to become a tv expert on racism.

Enjoy a best selling book and a tv documentary where he gets to opine at length about racism is worthy of question.

His career is a walking talking rebuttal of his thesis that anti blackness is taken more seriously than anti-semitism.

So I suppose a long winded way to say Baddiel was the wrong person to be doing this. He has upset so many of us so very deeply with his unapologetic racism.