16 year old in hospital, adult mixed ward.

[Teenangels]

My daughter and I are currently sitting on a chair in the waiting area, to be taken up to a ward, she is 16 only just and been diagnosed with an appendicitis, she has been given morphine, so is sleepy and

I have been told that she will be going up to an adult mixed ward to wait for surgery and that I am not allowed to go up with her.

I am actually furious that my 16 year old will be surrounded by adult men, she is a child how is this allowed to happen.

In my eyes she is still a child, she can't get married (without my permission) but can be treated as a child.

AIBU and over reacting or AINBU to feel she is being totally let down.

Just stop, it unbelievable clear what this PP is saying.

This happened to us with my 15 year old.
Appendicitis too.
She was upset so I asked to go to kids ward they agreed.
What does your daughter think

You absolutely ought to be allowed to be with her. She is a child and needs you.

Ok maybe play acting was the wrong word, I mean that if dd is trying to be brave and saying “I’ll cope mum don’t worry” and acting v mature as many teens will while being scared inside and then break down later then that’s not going to help their case. She should be saying she needs her mum and she dosent want to her leave - literally holding on, really no security guard is going to physically pull kid away from their mum if all they are doing is sitting there. But if they quietly walk away then nothing is going to change

Quote the work that Baroness Nicholson has done to remove Annexe B. You should be allowed to stay with your child, this is a safeguarding issue.Baroness Nicholson's Annexe B

Phone your MP

See PALS

Find the CEO office and get them to come and sort it out.

All those saying it’s fine because there are single sex bays, that does not stop anyone being able to get into the bay from another bay. DH is in hospital at the moment and several times patients from other bays have walked into theirs by mistake after going to the (mixed sex on the corridor) toilet.

The average time for the buzzer to be answered is 12minutes, DH and bay-mates worked it out yesterday. So the average time before a staff member would know someone was in the wrong bay, or was doing wrong to a patient, would be 12 minutes. All his bay are bed bound so in theory staff answer faster than to mobile patients.

DD was put on a mixed sex ward aged 19. Right opposite the mix sex toilets. Several elderly men walked into their bay confused. The elderly lady opposite her got into her bed with her. At that point she rang me hysterical (2am) and I rang the ward who then stationed a HCA in the bay for the rest of the night. Not ideal when short staffed but it was that or me insisting on going in to sit there.

That’s not quite right.

Children over sixteen are presumed to have capacity to consent because the MCA only applies to those over 16. The Act requires a presumption of capacity.

Frazer and Gillick relate to under 16s. Parental consent cannot usually overrule a child’s consent unless the child lacked capacity or competency. Parents can only give consent in specific justifiable circumstances. That is taken to in situations where a parent would reasonably be expected to act and make decisions. The MHA also impacts on how consent should be obtained and from whom.

A mixed sex ward is usually separate bays. The requirement is for single sex accommodation where people stay overnight. There are exceptions based on clinical delivery. ITUs are mixed sex as are recovery areas.

You need to speak up on behalf of your daughter instead of fuming. Ask to speak to the ward manager in first instance and explain she is a frightened child. If the ward manager is not around ask to speak to the divisional matron or head nurse for paediatrics. Explain to them and ask to stay. See if the paeds ward has space and could take her.

I wish people on this thread would stop saying that the bays are never mixed sex. There are still some bays that are mixed sex. I had a man on the bed either side of me and across from me.

‘Demand’ all you want but in my trust 16 year olds go to adults. In Paeds we don’t even have enough beds in my area for the sick under 16s we have, we have sent children miles away to another trust.

it’s not right but it’s what’s been happening the whole time I’ve been in the NHS

As a child, I was admitted to an adult ward aged 7 as children’s ward was full-
But they were strict on visiting hours
The adults were extremely kind, and next day I was transferred to Children’s ward.
The Morphine will take the edge off your daughter’s anxiety , as well as her physical pain.
She’ll be in a Kid’s ward soon, best of luck to you both 🍀

Good luck with that, even single sex wards allow males if they say they are women! Insanity I know, but true.

Well said!

Find the CEO office and get them to come and sort it out.

The CEO went home ages ago and I’d put money on there being a key code lock on the executive suite.

I think you’re getting quite a hard time from some people on this thread!

Personally, I think this is a safeguarding issue. I cannot fathom why you are not allowed to stay to mitigate this risk!

I am a teacher who has organised many residential trips abroad. Please imagine the uproar if I had organised a hostel type accommodation with beds separated by curtains with 16 year old girls and male members of staff in the same
room, sharing the same facilities; that would cause a national scandal!
I appreciate that the NHS is massively
underfunded and struggling but that should not put basic safety at risk. There may not be other beds on single sex wards but mum should be allowed to stay.

@Withnoshoes
It's exactly the same in my hospital. I don't think people realise how paeds beds are allocated and how dire it is at the moment. We were looking for beds 50 miles away last week because there is nothing nearer.

Is a wall and two sets of double doors not enough separation? if not, how many does it need to be? 2 walls? 5m? 10m? Different floors? Why not a separate building???

That's not my experience of 'bays' on a mixed ward. On the one I was on, they were just bays - recesses - no doors or anything - giving onto an area at the top that had the desks and so on, and the bathrooms. Everyone had to walk through this 'no man's land' to go to the toilet/shower - the toilets themselves were separate but the area between them and the bays was not.

As there were no doors the bays were in full view of anyone walking past them. And believe me, some people were wandering all over the place - very possibly they didn't all know what they were doing, but it led to a very unpleasant experience for me, whether intentional or not.

thanks for adding the MHA stuff.

Providing consent is treated differently to witholding it however.

at 16 a child who is witholding consent can be overidden by their parent or a person with parental repsonsibility in england and wales, but not in soctland.

www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-guidance-for-doctors/0-18-years/making-decisions#:~:text=Parents%20cannot%20override%20the%20competent,lacks%20the%20capacity%20to%20consent.

(Section 31)

I'd just refuse to leave OP. They are not realistically going to get the police to escort you out are they. I'd also make it clear all the people you are planning on complaining to if they do try to remove you - press, mp, pals etc.

Discusting

i wouldnt leave a naieve 16 year old girl in the same room as strange old men. Anything could happen. Where is the safeguarding?

Last thing a nervous teen needs is a someone flashing her

@Teenangels When mum and dad had to leave me at 7 yrs on Adult ward and not stay due to strict visiting hours, Mum said they went to a local pub and she cried into her beer.
I’m sure the nursing staff will be aware if how young your daughter is, and will probably put her next to women.

Bit of an overreaction tbh. If you want to dictate your care, then go private. Otherwise, accept what's on offer as it's perfectly fine. a 16 year old on an adult ward is completely normal as are mixed sex wards which you've clearly nicer been on as you have invented problems with it before even knowing what it is like. Oh, and healthcare staff are currently very stressed so if you become that parent, it may well impact on your daughter's care so I'd wind your neck in.

I'd have calmly and politely refused to leave.

Diabolical.

"However if she is a young 16 still at school an adult ward (male or female) is probably not the best environment."

I thought all 16 year olds in England had to be in school or training?

@fannyfartlet stop speaking out of your fanny...

If you want to dictate your care, then go private.

As if everyone can afford to just 'go private' - and private hospitals don't have A&E departments, anyway.