To think Scotland should become independent?

[antelopevalley]

As life continues to get worse in the UK, it is time for Scotland to go independent. We need to build a forward-looking country that invests in its future, rather than the backward-looking country the UK has become that prioritises the rich. It is time for Scotland to separate from the UK and become that country.

The SNP are a new labour govt, we need labour to win the next election - I can't see any huge political divide particularly between the politics of London, all the labour voting areas of rUK and the SNP voting parts of Scotland.

Well, there is clearly something different, they voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU (38 to 62%) and don't ever vote Tory......

Or is it down to their media?

@Alexandra2001 I'm not saying Scotland shouldn't be independent or that they shouldn't necessarily have another vote - I doubt very much it would affect me either way.

All I'm saying is that although they could become an independent state, they would be unlikely to meet the financial criteria for EU membership - as explained by another poster above re changing currency.

However as an independent state AND not able to join the EU, the Scottish economy would struggle considerably, given more spending is currently given to Scotland by Westminster than any other UK nation 🤷‍♀️

The sooner, the better. Does anyone seriously believe that the Scots are more incompetent than the crew which as been governing in Westminster for the past 12 years?

It's not so much that (although yes, just as incompetent, since you ask). It's the fact that the UK politicial and bureaucratic process is centuries old and actually has some level of check and balances. There is nothing like that in Scotland and as things stand the SNP can effectively run it as a fiefdom.

And my SIL regularly travels from near Edinburgh to hospital in Newcastle for her post-heart transplant care.

Yes definitely go independent but this time can we English have a vote as well?
Since you all think you'll do better independently of the rest of the UK, crack on I say 😉

I totally agree. The should be a referendum

Alexandra2001, the Brexit vote may have been different in Scotland if it hadn't been for the 'material change ' aspect - we'll never know.

I totally agree. The should be a referendum

Totally. It's a disgrace that there's not been one yet.

Fundamentally I live in a country where my democratic choices are overridden by the votes of people who don't even live here. That's the crux of the matter.

In the UK, we have similar(ish)-sized constituencies (population-wise). I live in a very safe Tory constituency in England, so in spite of never voting for them, I too live in a country where my democratic choices are overridden by others. The thing about the democracy that so many people espouse as the perfect/best system is that 49% of the population can potentially never get a say - that's how it works.

I’ll try to find the social attitudes survey that proves the Scot’s have the same attitude as other non-SE England dwellers. Cause it has been studied, and the Scottish attitude is the same as that in great swathes of northern England with a similar post-industrial background.

If you live in Scotland through the last Indy ref and experienced the truly vile atmosphere, you’d understand why the no voting majority don’t want another one. ‘Civic and joyous’ it was not!

I wonder how that would go. People might vote yes just to end the constant complaining / moaning.

Totally. It's a disgrace that there's not been one yet. voice of the public huh ;

Or is it down to their media? Yup. The Scottish press is mainly left wing and nationalist. In the past the Daily Record had a real influence in encouraging people to vote Labour. National titles like the Daily Mail/Times have Scottish versions which have completely different headlines and opinion pieces than the English ones.

”I'd miss you but the Scottish do seem to be more progressive, liberal and open minded so I think you deserve better.”

That absolutely does not fit with what I see around me day to day. A man with a local accent telling a beggar to get back where he came from. An older woman refusing money to a Romanian woman, saying ‘I have to work for my money!’ Relatives in Perthshire talking disparagingly about immigration. The position of the church in places like the Outer Hebrides.

These attitudes are a socio-economic class, urban v rural, etc thing, not a Scottish v English thing. You can see this in the British Attitudes Survey. Oh, and most Scots don’t want rid of the nuclear deterrent, either.

In principle, it’s quite cheeky to move somewhere new and start agitating for change. You don’t have the experience and understanding of the issue and what it’s like to live here, and you don’t have the same skin in the game if you can easily leave again.

There is a fundamental difference between individual constituencies and an entire country.

Not one region in Scotland voted for Brexit. Not a single one, and yet here we are suffering the inevitable from the inevitable disaster it has been.

And secondly, in Scotland we've managed to adopt a proportional electoral system so - although it's far from perfect - most people do actually get a voice. Westminster is never going to move away from FPTP.

You do realise that the quickest way to get rid of the SNP, if that's what you want, is to get independence?

So I presume, under the same argument, that those not lving in Scotland should have no opinion either?

'You do realise that the quickest way to get rid of the SNP, if that's what you want, is to get independence?'

Bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut though!

Yes I've seen that study too. But the point is that Westminster government is out of step with the social attitudes of Scotland and other non-SE England dwellers.
Scotland's in a better position to do something about it.

Or a bit like realising that the SNP and independence are actually two different things.

It's not just the SNP. It's the low quality generally of the MSPs. It should work well but doesn't.

Great OP

We really love it when people move here, stay for a few months and then become experts

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/indyscotland-eu/

Not quite in step with the view of some previous postings.