To think Scotland should become independent?

[antelopevalley]

As life continues to get worse in the UK, it is time for Scotland to go independent. We need to build a forward-looking country that invests in its future, rather than the backward-looking country the UK has become that prioritises the rich. It is time for Scotland to separate from the UK and become that country.

No but i do think your completely OTT on this issue.. esp as the SC has decided and its highly unlikely there will be another vote this side 2050.

which is what i said a few pages back but still u go on....... and i agreed with you on "voluntary" but still you bang on ... & on...

As for Germany France Spain etc do these countries have sports teams representing their devolved regions... what was the score when Catalonia played Croatia in a WC qualifier?

Anyhow enjoy having another burst blood vessel, i'm out.

I don't see any "hate".

Unless you're using "hate" in its current parlance to mean "anything I disagree with".

however, i do think that as Scotland continually votes SNP

@Alexandra2001 all of Scotland votes for the SNP do they? Ok, not all - how about a majority? Still no.

The balance between votes for unionist parties and separatist parties in Scottish elections is basically on a knife edge. Even if every single vote for the SNP was a vote to leave, that still wouldn't be a majority to leave. Elections aren't single issue votes, people will vote for the SNP even if they don't want to leave the UK.

You kept on mentioning the whole voluntary thing so I responded to it.

Football teams now, hey?! 🤣 Football has zero relevance to international law, secession and the UKs status as a unitary sovereign state.

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland only compete still as they do for historical reasons. England and Scotland held the first international match. Northern Ireland invented the penalty spot kick.

But.....irrelevant to international law. Clutching at straws!

Oh, and I don't personalise debates. But you evidently do.....very poor show from you.

Down native, you seem to be a very black and white thinker, and quite patronising to boot 😂😂😂

If you ask anyone across the uk, lots would define ‘England’ ‘Scotland’ etc as countries - it might not be the law, but that’s how people feel. Even a lot of unionist supporters would struggle with Scotland isn’t a country.

Completely ignoring how people feel, their identity/culture with a smirk isn’t going to tempt people to give up on independence and see the value of being in the UK.

Why is is being part of the uk best for Scotland? the only argument you ever see comes down to money. Personally I feel Scotland has had to sacrifice key things which impacts its current earnings e.g. oil revenues invested in London, for the benefit of the uk. Fine, but then to be complained at for contributing less than London? How different would Scotland be if that money had been invested here. How about the Edinburgh stock exchange which had to give way to London?

Law is pretty black and white, you know. Funny how those who have no credible argument against the legal case simply attempt to personalise a debate(!)

You'll notice I don't do that.

No, people informally acknowledge England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are countries. I sometimes refer to Northern Ireland as "our wee country" informally.

But we say Constituent countries of the UK and non-sovereign when we need to be precise as well as specific in a political and/or legal sense.

But countries are NOT necessarily or automatically sovereign ones, you know. At the end of the day, it is independent sovereign countries that really matter and it is they who hold the current international order together.

Hence, unilateral declarations of independence is completely illegal in international law as well as domestic law.

Think about that for a minute.

The economy is a major part of the Unionist argument, but it is clearly NOT the only one. There are social, familial and cultural bonds right across the UK. We can see it in our buildings as well as history - Belfast, Glasgow, Manchester and Sheffield are very similar to each other including historically. These bonds are worth keeping.

Now, the UK can go ahead over the coming years to do a Canada-esque Clarity Act. I trust you've seen what's happened to Quebec and Catalan independence movements over the last few years?

@DownNative

You do know that your smug style of posting does more for the independence movement than anything else?

You really do come across as a pompous pita.

And yes I'm fully aware it an ad hominem argument, so no need to use your superior intellect to tell me that. Ad hominem are not always fallacies. Someone's contempt can be far clearer than their (copied and pasted) arguments. 👍

It’s getting a bit personal attack but imo the legal side is interesting. I caught the end of the Supreme Court reasoning and it was very good.

Dear me....you give me far, far too much influence on the Scottish independence movement! Ridiculous statement.

And it'd be just as ridiculous if I said your behaviour strengthens the pro-union argument!

Sorry, but Ad Hominems are ALWAYS logical fallacies precisely because they do NOT attempt to debate the issue at hand. Ad Hominems are intended to divert from the debate.

Socrates was spot on....

Have you read the Supreme Court's 35 page document outlining their whole reasoning?

Some excellent stuff in there that will be added to my already extensive collection of international law facts on the issues of secession and self-determination rights.

The judges eyes must've been on stalks when they read the SNPs written submission! They made the kind of argument their own Scottish Lord Advocate wouldn't go anywhere near....

No I just tuned into a statement on Times Radio from the court and the wording and reasoning was excellent, I was very impressed, I’ll check it out though

I was a bit annoyed after actually as the presenter said to his reporter you just encapsulated his 8 minutes in one. I can’t stand dumbing down and they are usually better than that