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Where can I buy. Suffragette scarf

230 replies

SeasonaIVag · 16/11/2022 07:44

Excuse the daily mail link but I am absolutely raging at this

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11432097/Woman-wearing-suffragette-scarf-kicked-Scottish-parliament-gender-debate.html

ps MNHQ - tucking away discussion into its own wee sub forum doesn’t make you any better

OP posts:
TruckerBarbie · 16/11/2022 21:06

midgetastic · 16/11/2022 17:37

Well I am glad you're alright with sexism

I'm not

I don't see why I should be ignored or paid less or physically harmed just because I am female

I understand why you don't see so many women in certain roles - it's a combination of sexism at the education system , sexism in the family environment and sexism in the recruiting process - but hey if women really wanted it they would be there wouldn't they ? No because they have to want it ten times more than any male so you end up with then men times fewer women

Sorry to disagree, but I feel like the last bit of your post is possibly just a standard trope that people parrot back.

Have you actually tried to get a HGV license like I have so that you actually know what the recruiting process is? Or learnt a trade? I'm not convinced most of the people who confidently state how hard it is have any idea tbh.

There's not really a 'recruiting process'. You take your lessons then you book your test. The test is much less subjective than getting job qualifications based on soft skills, because it doesn't come down to the 'perception' of the examiner to any large extent. Either you hit a kerb/check your mirror or you don't.

When on the job it's pretty evident who can do it well or not. The driver who rarely bumps into things and gets there on time is a good driver. The bricklayer who lays bricks neatly is a good bricklayer. The end product speaks for itself.

I spent quite a few years in bid/project management and it was much worse. With big teams, the manager often has a birds eye view and the people that work hard but keep their head down can end up getting less recognition than those that make themselves heard and say the right things in meetings/suck up to the boss etc. The former are often women and the latter are often men IME. Plus there is also subconscious bias at play and male favouritism.

Nobody cares about this in the industry I work in. They just want the materials on time and the job done. If you do a good job then that's it. It's not about 'professional reputation' and jostling to be next in line for promotion. Yes, I encounter a few knuckle draggers and I hear some jokes that would never get past HR in most offices, but overall it's a much better environment for me than corporate jobs were.

Some will no doubt deny this and call me sexist, but I firmly believe that women are just less keen on the whole to get covered in mud and dust and to work in jobs where you can't look good/dress nicely like in an office. But there is a real black hole IMO where non-academic, often working class, women disappear into shitly paid retail jobs because they see no alternative.

Men don't suffer this problem as they can go into trades, and the average salary for trade work is £10k above the average salary earned by a graduate. Of course, there are ultimately less opportunities to earn a six figure salary in trades unless you start your own business, but you can be guaranteed a solid £40k+ with many as opposed to maybe being stuck in a £30k office job like many people are.

It always strikes me when I stop at a caf for coffee that it's nearly always women serving the coffee and always men who are on the other side of the counter as drivers/tradespeople etc. A senior female account executive is probably not going to want to drive a truck, but a woman who's not academic or perhaps not particularly interested in pursuing the education path could well be better off learning a trade or driving a wagon.

Driving arctics, for example, can easily pay £50k with a couple years experience and costs about a fraction of what a degree does. It's not a particularly dirty job compared to site work and despite the intimidating size of the vehicle it can be surprisingly easy as you mainly drive on the motorway/A roads and deliver to large depots which have plenty of room to navigate and big wide bays which you can reverse straight onto.

It might not appeal to the majority of women but I'd take a trade or hgv job over working in a caf or shop any day of the week.

Waitwhat23 · 16/11/2022 21:07

This is currently happening in Scotland - twitter.com/NoXYinXXprisons/status/1592889224944005120?s=20&t=6_T-Se6wQTtSfr7fuGGu5w

For anyone who has not heard of this person - reduxx.info/transgender-pedophile-who-assaulted-10-year-old-removed-from-home-following-community-protest/

The Scottish Prison Service operate under a self id position, advised as they have been by Scottish Trans Alliance -

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2022/04/06/the-sps-review-on-trans-prisoners-a-chance-to-get-policy-making-in-scottish-prisons-back-on-track/

No GRC needed. Unlike England.

Unsurprisingly -

www.nationalreview.com/news/transgender-sex-offenders-placed-in-womens-jails-in-scotland/

archive.ph/2022.10.04-232359/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252 (this is also in The Times but I don't have a share token).

The reforms to the GRC will make it even easier for predators to take advantage of self id. The SNP, Scottish Greens and Scottish Labour voted against suggested amendments being put in place to restrict sex offenders from changing their gender.

I can't understand anyone who isn't horrified by this.

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 21:10

trans people are people. Nice people, in the main. But there is no place for pre operative trans women in woman’s spaces whatsoever. Once they have fully transitioned they’re welcome, but before that no chance. Who knows if they just ‘felt female’ for the afternoon and decide to go marching into the womens changing rooms?

i think it should be no males in woman’s spaces ever. It not womens job to provide validation for men with a trans identity. It doesn’t matter how nice they are.

Waitwhat23 · 16/11/2022 21:12

In addition, the vast majority of transwomen retain their penis. Human beings cannot change sex - they do not transition to female.

TruckerBarbie · 16/11/2022 21:13

OK, fair points.

I didn't mean to round on you the way I did. I just feel like a lot of people overlook certain unsavoury aspects of the suffragettes due to rose tinted spectacles.

I can understand to an extent their behaviour and why frustration may have led to violence, but I still find it hard to herald them as heroes as what they tried to do at the Theatre Royal (thankfully unsuccessfully) isn't really that far removed from the attack at the Ariana Grande concert.

TruckerBarbie · 16/11/2022 21:14

lifeturnsonadime · 16/11/2022 17:38

Well, your below quote posted in response to my one about bombing civilians sounds very much like a justification of their behaviour.

Perhaps if we were treated as equals in the first place the fight would not have been necessary.

Well they weren't treated as equals were they? Peaceful protests didn't work. Women were manhandled by police, put in prison and were force fed & assaulted for wanting the right to vote, was any of that acceptable? Pankhurst never wanted violence and urged it not to happen. Some women within the suffragettes WERE violent undoubtedly which is obviously very regrettable. So what I was trying to say was calling the suffragettes a violent movement is simplistic and fails to look at the context of the situation that these women were in. What I did not say was I thought blowing up innocent people was the solution which is what you implied I said.

I certainly don't think that it is women who are the violent party in the current women's rights fight. It is the TRAs who are using aggressive tactics to take women's rights.

FFS. I was responding to this post but somehow lost the quote.

lenalemonade · 16/11/2022 22:15

Am livid ...😡
I have worked in a male dominated industry since the late 80s
Never felt threatened or less than my male colleagues ,(occasional grabby male ,immediately slapped back down )
How can it be that 2022 I feel worried to be a woman going to the toilet in the garden centre where I need to share with males because now we are all just people ?

VinoDino · 16/11/2022 22:18

Happylittlechicken · 16/11/2022 21:10

trans people are people. Nice people, in the main. But there is no place for pre operative trans women in woman’s spaces whatsoever. Once they have fully transitioned they’re welcome, but before that no chance. Who knows if they just ‘felt female’ for the afternoon and decide to go marching into the womens changing rooms?

i think it should be no males in woman’s spaces ever. It not womens job to provide validation for men with a trans identity. It doesn’t matter how nice they are.

Chopping off one's penis still renders them male and therefore not entitled to women's spaces.

Campaign for a third space or for men to be more tolerant if they feel so threatened they can no longer use such spaces.

lifeturnsonadime · 16/11/2022 22:38

It might not appeal to the majority of women but I'd take a trade or hgv job over working in a caf or shop any day of the week.

A couple of points.

First it might not be so easy for a woman to 'take a trade job' over other roles because employers in those industries hold sexist assumptions of what a woman is capable of. I drive a van. Have done for years. I still have men (and women) congratulating me on being able to manoevre it. The assumption is that because I am a woman I can't. Women may want to break stereotypes, but in order to do so there have to be bosses who are willing to break their prejudices. That is a harder task.

Secondly equal pay. There were a raft of claims in the early years of the Equal Pay Act about like work. Now your comparisons are not good ones because of difference in skill but there is a raft of case law which demonstrate that people in male dominated positions (such as refuge collectors) earned significantly more than their female counter parts (cleaners in schools). There is no justifiable reason why those jobs should have different pay scales. Both are unskilled dirty work.

lifeturnsonadime · 16/11/2022 22:43

TruckerBarbie · 16/11/2022 21:13

OK, fair points.

I didn't mean to round on you the way I did. I just feel like a lot of people overlook certain unsavoury aspects of the suffragettes due to rose tinted spectacles.

I can understand to an extent their behaviour and why frustration may have led to violence, but I still find it hard to herald them as heroes as what they tried to do at the Theatre Royal (thankfully unsuccessfully) isn't really that far removed from the attack at the Ariana Grande concert.

Thank you but I find it astonishing that you don't see sexism or women's rights as a valid cause and compare women's rights to equality with men to islamic extremism.

We are never going to agree on this but I appreciate your olive branch.

SweetSakura · 16/11/2022 22:49

lenalemonade · 16/11/2022 22:15

Am livid ...😡
I have worked in a male dominated industry since the late 80s
Never felt threatened or less than my male colleagues ,(occasional grabby male ,immediately slapped back down )
How can it be that 2022 I feel worried to be a woman going to the toilet in the garden centre where I need to share with males because now we are all just people ?

Lucky you. I was assaulted repeatedly as a teenager /in my twenties.
At football matches, at the pool, at pubs and clubs, at work.

I didn't dress provocatively. (Not that that would make it my fault).

allboysherebutme · 16/11/2022 23:00

The ministry of tartan. X

SeasonaIVag · 17/11/2022 05:57

Sometimes I feel like Scotland has become weirdly radicalised. I don’t live there any more but such narrow mindedness is depressing in a nation that prides itself on socialist principles, justice and inclusivity (as long as you’re not english)

I left Scotland about 15 years ago and it just seems like a different place to me now. My family who all still live there say the same. A pity as I am by nature very pro independence but cannot stomach all this trampling of womens rights.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 17/11/2022 08:59

Seasonal, I can assure you this is all coming from a very small cabal of extremist politicians. The general public is NOT on board.

KittenKong · 17/11/2022 09:31

But sadly they have the power to do this! Who have them our rights to dispose of in such a way. Or is it to distract from real world issues (as well as chasing the tweenie vote?)

Purplecatshopaholic · 17/11/2022 09:35

I got a silky-type one from Etsy

lifeturnsonadime · 17/11/2022 09:46

But sadly they have the power to do this!

I think this is the bit that really bothers me. It's so undemocratic.

You only have to look at the map on the petition linked above
petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=623243

to see there is dissent in Scotland. NS should be asking why this is, and putting in measures to protect vulnerable women from sex offenders and rapists in prisons, rather than calling women who object bigots.

It is scary that in a democracy such things can happen under a female leader. It demonstrates the power and presumably £££ of the lobbyists. She obviously is so under their control she's lost all sense of reason.

DuringDinnerMints · 17/11/2022 09:54

www.manbeeco.co.uk/product/suffragette-bee-pin-emmeline-s-pantry-charity-special-edition

There are also these pin badges. All the profits go to an amazing women's charity.

lifeturnsonadime · 17/11/2022 09:56

DuringDinnerMints · 17/11/2022 09:54

www.manbeeco.co.uk/product/suffragette-bee-pin-emmeline-s-pantry-charity-special-edition

There are also these pin badges. All the profits go to an amazing women's charity.

That's really lovely.

NewBootsAndRanty · 17/11/2022 18:20

I'd quite like this to finish off my winter accessorising (first green/purple/white hat my google search brought up)

Where can I buy. Suffragette scarf
CaveMum · 17/11/2022 19:09

The Scottish Parliament stance has been noticed at Westminster 😜

twitter.com/roseveniceallan/status/1593255943457816578?s=46&t=7EB94pALHdBF-AsmU8punQ

CaveMum · 17/11/2022 19:14

And she wasn’t the only one!

twitter.com/lnmackenzie1/status/1593283511238139906?s=46&t=7EB94pALHdBF-AsmU8punQ

TruckerBarbie · 17/11/2022 21:14

lenalemonade · 16/11/2022 22:15

Am livid ...😡
I have worked in a male dominated industry since the late 80s
Never felt threatened or less than my male colleagues ,(occasional grabby male ,immediately slapped back down )
How can it be that 2022 I feel worried to be a woman going to the toilet in the garden centre where I need to share with males because now we are all just people ?

I don't think men should be allowed in the women's loos. But practically speaking, do you actually see many transwomen at the garden centre?

ArabellaScott · 17/11/2022 22:13

The transwoman who masturbated (through clothing) in front of me in the toilets when I was 17 was in Pizza Hut. I am guessing any toilet would have done, tbh.

Melroses · 17/11/2022 22:17

😬Envy

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