General election tomorrow - who do you vote for?

[IaminRome]

I'm so sick of this government and reading a lot of the posts on here, it feels like on the one hand, so are lots of people, but there are also lots of other people who are very sceptical about labour or lib dem or greens. Added to which, there are so many issues at the moment, I know there's a lot of GC and what makes a woman, that is particularly important at the moment, and cost of living, private rentals, the environment, etc etc

So knowing what you know about the parties, if there was a general election tomorrow, who would you vote for..

YABU - Tories
YANBU - Labour
Comment for a third option

I used to be green, but I'm so not sure any more. So I think I'd vote labour, to stand best chance of keeping Tories out. (What I'd really like to vote for is a more representative government)

Honestly I think all the Tories who spoke said some variation of "free speech, freedom of assembly, we already have laws for that,"

I can't recall any other argument being put across.

So I've just read that section from Hansard, which is where my two point summary comes from.

I don't think it adds much to the debate - you'd have to ask MPs who voted against for their reasons, and they'd lie.

I seem to recall someone on here pointed out that marriage equality came about under a Tory government, therefore the Tories aren't all bad. Which means I have to point out that although it was a Tory idea, it would not have passed without substantive support from Labour and the Lib Dems.

Your opinion on Stella Creasy is just that - an opinion. Tory politicians can think what they want, but they're choosing to serve the Tory party, so that massively undermines their credibility in my eyes - because the trans issue is only a small piece of the whole.

I used to really rate Stella Creasy.

But I'm pretty sure my jaw wasn't the only one that hit the floor when I saw that interview with her in the Telegraph with the headline, "JK Rowling is wrong, a woman can have a penis", and in which she confidently proclaimed that trans women are female.

Like...you care so much about pregnancy and childbirth and abortion but you don't think it is necessary to have a word for the class of people who may experience those things? What?

She was also dreadfully rude to posters on here when she participated in the web chat along with Caroline Nokes, and then had a three day meltdown on Twitter afterwards which was just a sight to behold.

She was a really promising politician. What happened? Does she not realise that these comments will follow her around forever, long after the general public are all in agreement that the transgender emperor has definitely not got a stitch on she/her?

Such a waste.

You answered your own question (despite poopooing me when I said exactly the same thing)

For what it's worth, I do think it is entirely possible that some people voted against purely because it was Stella Creasy who proposed it.

Yoy could substitute any opposition politician’s name there and it would still be the answer.

Nothing says "The party of protecting women's rights" than abstaining from voting for,

speaking against voting for, and voting against protecting women's rights.

Especially when it's such senior members of the Cabinet and even the Prime Minister.

Oh lord I remember that meltdown! She just could not stop, it was actually astonishing in its awfulness.

No, I said that was a possibility.

I would still like to know what opposing arguments were made before making assumptions.

And no, you couldn't substitute any opposition politician's name. The issue with Stella Creasy is that, despite her obvious genuine interest in women's issues, she's leaned right in to this "women can have penises" nonsense and is therefore no longer credible. She's just not a serious person and I would rather women's issues were being raised by someone who isn't so easily dismissed as totally batshit.

I think this discussion about Stella Creasy has helped to clarify in my mind what the issue is with the Labour Party.

It's controlled by nutters.

There are many decent, sensible, intelligent left wing politicians in the Labour Party who go into politics genuinely wanting to build a better and more fair society.

But then they get elected and they quickly realise that if you actually want to progress in the party you have to pander to the loonies.

There are really only three directions you can go in.

One, the least trodden path, is to stand up to the loonies and keep your integrity, as Rosie Duffield has done. And look where that gets you.

The most common path is to try and be a fence sitter, repeating just enough mantras not to upset the loonies without going full on cray cray yourself. This is what Anneliese Dodds does. And that arse full of splinters is clearly causing her a lot of discomfort.

Or you sell your soul to the loonies and go full nutbag, as Stella Creasy has done. Shadow cabinet, and maybe one day cabinet positions await. And you no doubt get a lovely warm glow from all the people in your echo chamber saying how wonderful you are, how you're the future of the party. But it comes at the cost of your credibility and integrity in the eyes of the non insane contingent of the population.

That's about the size of it. And also why I left the party.