General election tomorrow - who do you vote for?

[IaminRome]

I'm so sick of this government and reading a lot of the posts on here, it feels like on the one hand, so are lots of people, but there are also lots of other people who are very sceptical about labour or lib dem or greens. Added to which, there are so many issues at the moment, I know there's a lot of GC and what makes a woman, that is particularly important at the moment, and cost of living, private rentals, the environment, etc etc

So knowing what you know about the parties, if there was a general election tomorrow, who would you vote for..

YABU - Tories
YANBU - Labour
Comment for a third option

I used to be green, but I'm so not sure any more. So I think I'd vote labour, to stand best chance of keeping Tories out. (What I'd really like to vote for is a more representative government)

The Tories had an opportunity to listen to women, protect women, and protect women's rights, and loads of them abstained or voted against.

That's what I took away from it.

I’m not pro self-ID at all but I am a million times more scared of a pro-life party for me and my daughter.

And it's happening under this conservative government. Yet, some will vote for a continuation of this government.

Of course it is. Utterly ridiculous.

Is it?

What words do we have to define and discuss ourselves now, as Stella Creasy informs us, the words "women" AND "female" now include male people?

What words can we use to identify ourselves which do not include the opposite sex?

Why are you more scared of a pro life party that does not exist in the UK than you are of a party that exists and plans to introduce self ID as soon as it gets elected?

That's bonkers.

But the debate wasn't about whether women should be harassed outside abortion clinics. It was about whether parliament should legislate for buffer zones rather than leaving it to the discretion of local councils.

I'd like to know what the opposing arguments were. You apparently don't.

But it is just words ! ( as much as I am gender critical)
It's not having no NHS to speak of, or even more people using food banks or paying foreign teachers £10,000 to come to the UK to teach rather than pay the teachers we have a liveable wage!

I hate Labour's stance on this but I hate the Tories more, and everyone talking about not voting or spoil ng their ballot for this & other reasons will just give us another 5 years of a Conservative Govt.

I dread to think what the Country would be like for our kids then!

But the debate wasn't about whether women should be harassed outside abortion clinics.

Of course it was. If a government refuses to legislate against it, it’s effectively condoning it. Straightforward proof they don’t give a stuff about women and our rights.

Having national legislation in place for this sets a consistent standard across all non-devolved areas of the UK which all councils must adhere to. It prevents women from being at the mercy of local councils which may have a bias towards fundamentalist religious people, or which may generally be misogynist. It's simple and pragmatic. Maybe there are arguments against, but I can't see how they'd be rational or pragmatic.

I'm Dutch; there are areas of the Netherlands where local councils would be very heavily influenced by fundamentalist protestantism. I would not want people like that to have a say over whether a woman is protected from harrassment or not. I'd be very surprised if there weren't similar areas in the UK.

It's not just words.

It's women being raped in prison by male inmates. It's women not having access to single sex support after they've been raped. It's the NHS gaslighting patients and lying to the police by saying that a rape cannot have taken place on a ward as no males were present. It's Muslim women no longer being able to use communal changing rooms. It's not being able to make an equal pay claim because the word female now includes male and your male colleague who gets paid more than you for doing the same job has decided he is now a woman.

I get that you feel other things are more important. Maybe they are.

But I do not get why Labour has taken this position. I do not get why the Lib Dems have taken it, although rumour has it they have had significant political donations from pharmaceutical companies.

Regardless of who you think is the least worst option right now taking all issues into account together, there is not and never will be a good explanation for why Labour and the Lib Dems don't think female people are a group of people we need a word for, which actually exists in law.

Ok, here's an argument against.

I'm a representative of a local council and I don't want to put a buffer zone around a nearby abortion clinic because I think that would only draw attention to where it is. Right now it manages to operate pretty discreetly and we don't have problems with protesters, but if we had to put up a buffer zone people might get wind of it and decide to protest just outside the buffer zone.

For example.

This kind of simplistic thinking is emblematic of what is wrong with current political discourse.

Oh stop being so fucking patronising. I’m really tired of being told I’m simplistic, childish, disingenuous and various other condescending adjectives. Your perpetual insults to anyone who disagrees with you is so tedious.

@MargotBamborough

Having an anti-choice mindset is fucking scary. The reason for the abstentions is because the majority are too scared of their electorate to vote against but it is what they believe. And then you add in those who aren’t scared of voting against pro-choice legislation.

Labour have said already that self-ID is not a priority. I can guarantee that it will not appear in their manifesto. My guess is they will take a centre-ground on this issue given what has happened in Scotland. But I would imagine that you would still interpret their stance as being ‘determined to erase women’ unless and until Sir Kier gets a tattoo on his face that says ‘women can to have penises’…

I'd probably do what I always do ...

2 weeks before think 'thats it, I'm spoiling my vote. They r all crap!'

1 week before think 'i probably shouldn't waste my vote. I think I'll vote labour'

On the day - vote 'lib dem' then regret it and wish I'd voted labour

Never ever would I vote conservative!

:)

MargotBamborough had no idea that these votes were even happening until about 5 hours ago…….
She hardly has a considered stance on the matter

Oh come on. Have I not had exactly that from people on this thread who don't respect my right to be a single issue voter, and that if I don't put aside my concern for women's rights and do the right thing and vote the Tories out I'm condoning the collapse of the economy and the NHS?

There have not in fact been any votes on restricting women's right to an abortion, which is what several posters on this thread have claimed the Tories support, have there?

Excellent post.

They are awake to the issues and trying to sort it our hence their interference with the Gender Reform Bill in Scotland.

Labour, Lib Debs, Greens are all full steam ahead on this and will happily fuck women over if they get in to govt.

I don't know what the reason for the abstentions is. Maybe the people concerned are anti choice. Maybe there were compelling arguments against the motion, which those who listened to the debate heard, and we have not.

It remains the case that the UK has the most liberal abortion rights in Europe, there has not been any serious move to restrict them, and the people claiming the Tories wish to do so have no compelling evidence to suggest that this is the case.

Labour have said that self ID is not a priority. They have not said they will not do it. And unless it says in their manifesto that they will not do it, I won't be helping them get into power.

If you have I haven’t seen it. Your rudeness is unmatched on this thread.

Nonsense. You just can't see it when it's coming from your own tribe.

I rest my case. I don’t have a “tribe”.