General election tomorrow - who do you vote for?

[IaminRome]

I'm so sick of this government and reading a lot of the posts on here, it feels like on the one hand, so are lots of people, but there are also lots of other people who are very sceptical about labour or lib dem or greens. Added to which, there are so many issues at the moment, I know there's a lot of GC and what makes a woman, that is particularly important at the moment, and cost of living, private rentals, the environment, etc etc

So knowing what you know about the parties, if there was a general election tomorrow, who would you vote for..

YABU - Tories
YANBU - Labour
Comment for a third option

I used to be green, but I'm so not sure any more. So I think I'd vote labour, to stand best chance of keeping Tories out. (What I'd really like to vote for is a more representative government)

Lib Dem.

1. It’s the only party that even comes close to Tory here.
2. The Lib Dem candidate has been doing the rounds since before he was even a candidate, knocking on doors, asking what people think. I’ve never even had a reply to emails I’ve sent the current Tory MP. I love that someone is so invested they go out and about talking to people before they are even elected to be the candidate for their party.

So Lib Dem works for me on both a local and national level.

I’ll vote Conservative

will spoil my ballot with a feminist sticker as I did last time.

But what's the point of that? No-one will know or care. Better to stand as a candidate yourself, surely, if there are none whose views align with yours.

How dreadful to be under a government which will protect women's and children's rights so much better than the current one does and will.

Labour won't protect women's rights. I'm not voting for a party who doesn't know what a woman is. If the word woman loses its meaning then women have no rights or safeguards. The Tories started this. Labour will go even further with it. If anyone out there actually cares about women's rights and safeguards voting for labour would be a very self destructive move.

It's really telling that some posters keep saying, "But the Tories don't protect women's rights either!" and refusing to answer the question about why Labour won't protect women's rights.

MargotBamborough · Today 10:00
It's really telling that some posters keep saying, "But the Tories don't protect women's rights either!" and refusing to answer the question about why Labour won't protect women's rights.

the point is that women’s rights is about so very much more than the trans issue. Eg the threat of eroding maternity rights due to divorcing uk law from EU law (which the hard brexiteer business leaders are pushing for). The shocking numbers of Pro life senior tories who are voting against or abstaining from pro choice votes in parliament. The disgusting misogynistic methods of policing in this country and absence of proper legislation to come down hard on perpetrators of domestic violence. Not to mention health and welfare for the poorest in society.

@TheHoover this. I find the view of women's rights being 100% about gender ID to be dangerously narrow. The picture is so much bigger.

I agree that women's rights is broader than just the trans issue.

But I simply don't trust a party which refuses to even name the group of people affected because it upsets some other people (who are not actually oppressed, just spoilt and self obsessed) to fight for any women's rights.

How are women supposed to make an equal pay claim if we no longer actually have words in the English language or the legal system to clearly distinguish between the two sexes?

Stella Creasy banged on incessantly about MPs not getting maternity leave and not being allowed to breastfeed in the House of Commons, and then she said that not only are trans women women, they are also female! Sorry, Stella, are you really saying that we don't need a word for the group of people who experience barriers to entering and progressing in politics because they don't get paid maternity leave and their employer doesn't facilitate them breastfeeding their very young babies? She knows exactly what a woman is and what female means when she personally finds herself on the sharp end of sex discrimination, but when it's only other women affected, such as female prisoners and female athletes and female rape survivors, trans women are female, apparently, and we don't need a word for the group of people who used to be female when the word female still meant the same thing in humans as it does in all other animals.

Ultimately, there is no good reason why Labour doesn't agree that women should have the language to clearly identify and describe themselves in a way that excludes the opposite sex, and to have our own single sex spaces and sports.

You can bleat, "But what about the evil nasty Tories!" all you like, but you cannot actually come up with a good reason why Labour supports the erasure of the female sex in law and language, and their sex based rights.

And I doubt we will see a "female" Labour leader until Eddie Izzard has got a gender recognition certificate.

Of course it is, but the blinkered extremists who are obsessed with definitions aren't going to see it that way.

As I said, hopefully they congregate on Mumsnet and they aren't too numerous because I don't encounter them in real life.

Can you explain what is extreme about believing that female people should be allowed to have a word for themselves and some single sex spaces and sports?

Or has the word "extremist" been redefined, like so many other words?

That was covered last night.

So the answer is "no I can't" then.

The discussion of extreme viewpoints regarding single issue voting happened last night.

I'm sure you are capable of scrolling back.

Your interpretation of my answer is your responsibility.

The question of single issue voting is a separate issue. It has nothing to do with the validity of the issue itself.

Millions of people were single issue voters over Brexit, for example. Would you call them extremists? Or are only people who disagree with you, or who refuse to vote Labour, "extremists"?

I get that you have no time for single issue voters.

What I asked was why you think it is "extreme" to believe that female people should be allowed to have a word for themselves, and a few single sex spaces and sports.

I would consider all single issue voters to be extreme, whether on Brexit, gender or anything else. It's a foolish and damaging way to interact with the privilege of having a democracy.

Push this all you like. What you think is of no interest to me, having seen what you have to say, and I have no interest in talking to you.

Well you're making it very clear to me that Labour is not my tribe.

They have nothing to offer other than not being the Tories, and their supporters have nothing to say other than, "If you don't vote to get the Tories out, you're a terrible person whose priorities are all wrong."

What part of "I have no interest in what you think or who you vote for" did you not understand? That was covered yesterday as well. I'm not remotely interested in debating with blinkered single issue voters like you and have no time for them.

Stop replying to me then!

Where do you get the idea that they have nothing to offer? Do you think that a commitment to protecting women's rights in the workplace and elsewhere, and preserving the right to termination of pregnancy - to say nothing of numerous other basic equality rights - is nothing?

You're the one persisting in posing questions I made it clear I wasn't going to debate.

Now I'd appreciate it if you didn't address any further questions to me. As I said - I'm not prepared to waste my time on blinkered single issue people.

this

...and this

I'm gc, I have a dd who competes at high level in her sport, whilst she trains with males, competing is a different story and there is a chance of injury against an opponent with male advantages.

I think that the damage being done by the conservatives is so much worse than hypothetical fear of manifestos that haven't yet been released. Its not possible to know that Labour will end womens rights forever, there is no evidence of this, but, there is plenty of evidence that the conservatives have damaged womens rights by allowing gender to trump sex. This needs to change.

I fully intend to challenge all candidates in the next election to find out where they stand, I already know my current conservative mp is fully behind self certification, I don't yet know about my Labour candidate, although he's a gp and appeared gc to my dm when she chased him down the road and asked him (he had knocked on their door, but df said no thanks, not interested in Labour). She wanted to know about that and other issues.

Not all Labour or conservative candidates will agree on everything, talk to yours nearer the time and ask the questions with an open mind, you are more likely to find the candidate that best represents you.