To not be fobbed off with "data protection" as an excuse?

[KER90]

Have name changed for this just in case it's identifiable.

DS is 6 years old and in Year 1. Last week he was attacked by another child, who is in year 2. He was left with marks around his neck and a mark and lump on his head. DS doesn't know the other child's name, he's not in his class (mixed y1 & y2) and he's not even sure if he is in the other mixed class or the year 2 only class.

DH has been to speak briefly to the head today as he wants to know what the school have done about it as all we were told on the day of the incident was that the other child had "been dealt with". She tried to fob him off with "data protection" as an excuse for not being able to tell us what they have done. Just that it had been "severely dealt with".

Now, I think this is just a vague response in order to avoid admitting they've done sweet FA. Hoping that we go oh okay no worries and just forget about it. It's not giving out personal or identifiable information and as above, we don't even know who the child is. Surely when it comes to safeguarding, they should be able to tell parents what measures they are putting in place to protect their children? The way in which DS was assaulted, is, in my opinion, not the kind of thing you do as a first time offence, it is serious and if I had done that to another adult, I would be arrested and probably jailed. Just because they are under the age of criminal responsibility, it doesn't mean they should do nothing about it. If it's not dealt with now, who knows what that child will go on to do in the future.

"Severely dealt with" is also surely a matter of opinion? They may think it's a severe punishment, but I might not, and vice versa. For example has the child been "told off" or "lost certain privileges" or has he been suspended? Bit of a difference.

We are going back in on Friday for a more formal chat and DH has told the head that he wants answers to his questions and we are not going to let it go until we are satisfied with the response. She seemed very flustered and didn't quite know what to say, which tells me that she knows she can't bullshit her way out of this situation with her usual tactics.

Thankfully, DH is, shall we say, very assertive, but does anyone with inside knowledge of this type of thing have any advice?

I think you're being a bit wide eyed faux naive about the assertive vs aggressive discussion going on.

You said: Thankfully, DH is, shall we say, very assertive

You added the 'shall we say' in a way very obviously meant to imply to people that he is more than 'just' assertive and is actually a bit scary / intimidating.

Otherwise you'd just have worded it: 'DH is very assertive'.

@PositiveCoffee Thats a really useful explanation.

I didn't say guess did I? I said what would you think would be appropriate. The just for fun bit was light-hearted. Unclench ones buttocks

You go first OP - what would be your ideal when it comes to the school's plan of action for handling this?

You won’t be told the exact sanctions as too be honest it’s irrelevant anyway - his punishment is not going to impact your DS.

However, what you can ask is what they’re going to do to ensure that this doesn’t happen again and what measures they’ve taken to do this.

Obviously this is highly unlikely that it happened in the classroom - so you want to be confident that if this happened if the playground or toilets that’s something is put in place to ensure it doesn’t happen to your DC or anyone else’s.

I don’t know why you’d think the school would do FA or bullshit their way out of it - they will take incidents like this very seriously and if you genuinely believe that they didn’t do anything then pull your son out and homeschool or change schools.

I didn't mean you Positive thanks for your reply.

Thanks @AntlerRose! At least someone appreciates me 😆

It is absolutely none of your business how they have dealt with the other child. All you are entitled to know is how this relates to your child, ie, how he/she is being kept safe.

I did ask, because there was another child in his reception class that bit him on the face, and I wanted to know if it was the same child.

Ok, DH is assertive.

There we go.

Can we let that go now please because this whole thread is just going off on one and people are just being ridiculous and judgemental.

Thanks, have been made aware of that fact over and over and over and over....

@KER90
Do you still consider the school's answer to be wishy washy?

Or do you understand that all they can tell you is that it has been dealt with, and will continue to he dealt with and monitored in accordance with their behaviour and bullying policy?

You have continued to say that you wont accept wishy washy non-answers and then get annoyed and say "why are you all still going on, I've said I understand... but I wont accept wishy washy."

Do you still think their answer is wishy washy? Are you still sending your, shall we say, very assertive husband in to get real answers?

I'll be honest, I don't actually know.

Oh I am sorry for using the word guess, instead of thinking up some horrible punishments for children. It completely inappropriate to come on MN and encourage other posters on to talk about punishing children. People get off on that kind of thing and it's not something I would be posting on a thread about your own injured son.

To be honest, it's probably because in my line of work (not going to disclose that because you lot are like and dogs with a bone and I'll be told I shouldn't be doing my job or something) we do tend to have to bullshit and cite data protection a lot.

Do you think I mean ok physical punishment or something like that?? Like I'm failing to understand this view point.

I’d decide on this before you go back to the school. Otherwise it just looks like you’re gunning for a fight.

You seem to be spoiling for a fight on all fronts OP, even on a thread you started in a forum section that is literally called 'am I being unreasonable'.

Going into the meeting with school with this kind of attitude rather than a collaborative one isn't going to do you any favours.

You've already decided that because they won't tell you exactly how they've reprimanded / dealt with the child, they must have either not done so at all or not done so enough.

You now know, from people in relevant jobs in this thread who have taken the time to share their expertise, that the school will not be able to tell you exactly how they've reprimanded / dealt with the child.

So you need to go into the meeting with a clear objective. Not to find out what they've done to that child, but to find out how they plan to safeguard yours.

If you go in with another objective, which seems to be to basically refuse to accept no for an answer, then nobody involved is a winner are they? Including your child.

My advice is to get the school to be extremely specific about what they are doing to safeguard your child. Don't be fobbed off with 'extra supervision' on the playground. Ask what that means, is YOUR son being watched? Why him specifically? Why should he be watched if was a victim? Who is doing this supervision? How long will this last?

Keeping them separate at playtime - will your child, the victim, be prevented from going where he wants due to the separation? Why is restricting your son's freedom, effectively punishing him, appropriate safeguarding? Remember you want to safeguard him mentally as well as physically.

I'm sure you could think of some more good questions to ask.

Get it all in writing, and you might be surprised at how much information you'll get if you 'read around' their responses.

I’m currently going through the other side of this, albeit not exactly the same situation.

DS3 is biting at nursery, a couple of times a week with varying degrees of severity; both adults and children; and in some cases hard enough to bruise and leave a mark. I get a phone call every time, and just some of the ways it is being dealt with are:

Short term:
Being reminded of being kind
Firmly told not to bite our friends
Reading “Teeth are not for biting”, both at nursery and at home
Being isolated from the rest of the group as a time out/reflection time
Having a biting “toy” around his neck for if he gets the urge to bite (as there is a bit of a sensory issue)
In severe cases, being sent home

Longer term:
Observed by SENCO (nursery attached to a prep school) with next steps report as possible emotional development delay
Shadowed by TA
Reducing days, with a Friday half day because his tiredness at the end of the week is/was a trigger

Obviously the parents of children he has bitten have to be contacted, and I’m sure some of them want reassurance it’s being dealt with. But so much of this is very personal to my little boy and I absolutely don’t think other parents have the right to know about what we are doing to address it. It is being addressed and in my view they need to either trust the nursery that it is (and the proof will be there when the incidents stop, as they have already been greatly reduced) or find an alternative setting.

It could well be that explaining how the child has been dealt with could be identifying. The child may be witnessing domestic abuse, have special needs, have recently suffered a bereavement etc, be suffering with mental health problems… the list goes on. The child may well need individualised management.

Thank you, those are some good things to ask.

@KER90

I'll be honest, I don't actually know.

If you don't know what you'd like them to have done then it seems more sensible to discuss with them what safeguarding is in place / what their policies are, rather than assuming they've done 'sweet FA' about it.

You're projecting your anger about your son being hurt onto school staff who will be tasked with safeguarding him to prevent it happening again.

You're treating them, and speaking about them, like they're the enemy when you should want to be acting like a team with them more than ever so you can work together to appropriately protect your child.

I just don't think I'm unreasonable in WANTING to know, which is what I think people are getting confused with. I know they won't tell me and the reasons why, and that is reasonable now I've had some helpful responses (some others not so much). It's baffling to me that someone wanting to know more information after being given such vague answers is seen as unreasonable. I have other questions to asked thanks to some people on here and for that I thank them, and with those answers I can correctly judge if I feel they have dealt with it appropriately.

Start with the mindset that teachers do not want children to be hurt by other children.
You could find out:
Ask where and when it happened?
Why do they think it happened?
Was the child just angry or was your son targeted for some reason?
What can they do to keep them apart?
Don't go in being confrontational. You will spoil your relationship with the school.