To not be fobbed off with "data protection" as an excuse?

[KER90]

Have name changed for this just in case it's identifiable.

DS is 6 years old and in Year 1. Last week he was attacked by another child, who is in year 2. He was left with marks around his neck and a mark and lump on his head. DS doesn't know the other child's name, he's not in his class (mixed y1 & y2) and he's not even sure if he is in the other mixed class or the year 2 only class.

DH has been to speak briefly to the head today as he wants to know what the school have done about it as all we were told on the day of the incident was that the other child had "been dealt with". She tried to fob him off with "data protection" as an excuse for not being able to tell us what they have done. Just that it had been "severely dealt with".

Now, I think this is just a vague response in order to avoid admitting they've done sweet FA. Hoping that we go oh okay no worries and just forget about it. It's not giving out personal or identifiable information and as above, we don't even know who the child is. Surely when it comes to safeguarding, they should be able to tell parents what measures they are putting in place to protect their children? The way in which DS was assaulted, is, in my opinion, not the kind of thing you do as a first time offence, it is serious and if I had done that to another adult, I would be arrested and probably jailed. Just because they are under the age of criminal responsibility, it doesn't mean they should do nothing about it. If it's not dealt with now, who knows what that child will go on to do in the future.

"Severely dealt with" is also surely a matter of opinion? They may think it's a severe punishment, but I might not, and vice versa. For example has the child been "told off" or "lost certain privileges" or has he been suspended? Bit of a difference.

We are going back in on Friday for a more formal chat and DH has told the head that he wants answers to his questions and we are not going to let it go until we are satisfied with the response. She seemed very flustered and didn't quite know what to say, which tells me that she knows she can't bullshit her way out of this situation with her usual tactics.

Thankfully, DH is, shall we say, very assertive, but does anyone with inside knowledge of this type of thing have any advice?

Oh I don't know, what about well they might have SEN, or they might have a violent home life? So that makes it ok to take this out on my child does it?
All those things may well be very relevant in how the school follows up and sanctions the behaviour and informs future preventative measures.

Identifying features that affect the perpetrators in order to respond appropriately is 100% the school's job. I've written risk assessments for children who are high risk for violence towards staff and students. The children's history matters.

It would be very wrong if a school were to dismiss violent behaviour and do nothing, but identifying complex issues around a child who is behaving violently is entirely appropriate and in no way means anyone is saying it's ok for other children to be harmed by another child behaving violently.

What you said was:

Thankfully, DH is, shall we say, very assertive,

That "shall we say.." is what makes us think that he is a bit more than 'very assertive'.

You do realise that nobody at the school will have wanted this to happen to your child? That the staff will have been extremely concerned and most likely spent hours thinking about how it happened, why it happened and how to prevent it in the future?

This is not a cover up that you and your DH need to blow wide open - assertively or not. Demanding answers about 'punishments' doesn't make you a better or more protective parent. Requiring answers about your child's safety and the measures to protect them however, does.

Yes, ask for a copy of their Behaviour Policy and the Bullying Policy - I think Ofsted require that they should be available on their website. After your talk with the Headteacher if you are still not satisfied then You should put your complaint in writing to the Chair of Governors. Following all that you could also contact Ofsted to complain if you don’t think they’ve followed their own policies - and tell them that you’ll be doing that if you feel they're fobbing you off, it might make them think again.

Of course it doesn't but let's say the punishment reflects that the child has significant SEN and/or a horrific homelife but they can't provide you those details so in your eyes the punishment is not enough. What then? As is the consistent theme of the thread, focus on the safety of your child and ensure that they keep them safe.

Well thats where we disagree, I couldnt have been more specific, you seem to have a habit of not viewing people's answers to you as sufficient, no doubt I am also giving a wishy washy answer, fobbing you off and bullshitting

I also disagree with you that you are reasonable (that is the question you were asking AIBU..) for wanting to know how something was dealt with and that you have a right to complain if it isnt to your liking. You're not being reasonable

You've been told that over and over again and you continue to argue about it and to top it right off are now lying about what others on the thread have said.

As I said, keep painting that picture.

OP, say you ask to see the behaviour policy, and ask whether it has been followed- which are totally reasonable questions, by the way, but you're unhappy with the behaviour policy? What's the next step?

I get that you're understandably upset and I'm sure some of this post is an emotional reaction.

But I will just say that schools get parental complaints all the time, and it is very, very rare that a complaint will result in any change of policy.

It sounds like you have concerns about the school in general? And really, the only way to address these is to look for a new school, or to consider home schooling.

What you said was:

Thankfully, DH is, shall we say, very assertive,

That "shall we say.." is what makes us think that he is a bit more than 'very assertive'.

Totally agree with you. I've seen enough men like that in my career, as well as their partners who seem to think we're all going to cower in a corner and roll over when their amazing husband comes to be shall we say... Assertive .

Please ensure that you have full understanding of the policies. Just because a parent doesn't like something, it doesn't mean they have a right to complain. Absolutely do so if they are breaching their own policies.

And what if you were told and didn't deem this punishment enough? Would you carry on sending your 'assertive' husband in to the school to harass and bully the teachers, to try to dish out some corporal punishment? A town flogging? Water torture? A beheading maybe?

Particularly when followed by the clear enjoyment that the head was 'flustered'.

Perhaps she was intimidated, not so funny now.

"Appropriate punishments" are part of the school behaviour policy and the Headteacher is responsible for that, not the governors. DfE guidance puts it firmly in the remit of the Headteacher, who can delegate responsibility if they wish. Approval interval is set by the head, but the governing board have an input into that.
They can't reveal details of disciplinary measures taken with a child, no more than they can a member of staff. It is a confidentiality and GDPR issue. That is because it would be very easy for you to find out the identity of the child involved.

Yes, well that’s the whole point, if they have the policies to read prior to the meeting with the Head the understanding can be addressed and questions asked.

Oh yes of course what an utter ridiculous comment.

No one has harassed or bullied anyone other than the boy who attacked my child.

Specific where? All I see is wishy-washy none answers to a direct question.

What picture am i painting of myself?

Data Protection professional here - the definition of personal data is “information that RELATES to an identified or identifiable individual “. It is not not only information that can identify someone like name etc.

Any punishment relates to that child and therefore constitutes their personal data. As such the school cannot disclose this to you. As a fellow mum, I understand your frustrations but this really is a black and white matter in terms of what is permissable to be disclosed under GDPR.

The school can and should let you know what measures are being put in place to safeguard your child in future, but knowing the specifics of the punishment doesn’t form a part of this.

Actually OP you are being ridiculous. I'm sorry your child got hurt but it's not fucking rocket science, it does not take a genuine, to know or understand why a school will not reveal punishments given out to other children.

Has anyone actually read the posts where I've said I accept why I can't be told the punishment??

It's a shame, reading the tone of your post, you and your DH are going in ready for a fight and kind of enjoying the head being flustered.
You can't know any personal information about the other child. You can ask how your child will be kept safe in the future. You can ask the head to drop you a line after the meeting to confirm that information.
Complaints - why anticipate complaining? Wait and see what the head says. If you think that they aren't safeguarding your child enough then suggest that to them. If you decide you need to raise a complaint then just download the complaints procedure from the website (statutory requirement that it's there) and follow it. The first formal stage will always be to the headteacher, giving them a chance to consider and respond in writing.

P.s. I don't believe for a minute that you don't know which child was involved. Your child came home and immediately told you "X did this to me". It's what children do.

Also I haven't actually even said what I see as an appropriate punishment so would be interested to see what YOU all actually think would be appropriate in this situation, let's just say with no SEN, home concerns etc, go on, just for fun

You think it's fun to guess punishments inflicted on a child? Odd

Something you can use to identify that person

ICO defines personal information as anything that can identify an individual so details of a punishment could be seen as that. Such as the child was removed from lessons. In a primary this could be identifying.

You mention in the opening post that your son didn't know his son and I guess you did ask..understandably but perhaps that's why people questioning your motivation.

Others have said...review behaviour policy and ask what they are doing to keep your son safe

Massive apologies for offering help and explanation on a fast moving thread.

I get the feeling your definition of “assertive” and mine may differ…

Why would I lie about that?

He doesn't know the child. Their classes in reception were not mixed, they were reception children only and they were small classes. Year 1 and 2 have 2 mixed classes and 1 year 2 class. There are ALOT of year 2 children. He doesn't know all of them. He comes home telling me he had a new best friend all the time and when I ask their name he says "I don't know"