To not be fobbed off with "data protection" as an excuse?

[KER90]

Have name changed for this just in case it's identifiable.

DS is 6 years old and in Year 1. Last week he was attacked by another child, who is in year 2. He was left with marks around his neck and a mark and lump on his head. DS doesn't know the other child's name, he's not in his class (mixed y1 & y2) and he's not even sure if he is in the other mixed class or the year 2 only class.

DH has been to speak briefly to the head today as he wants to know what the school have done about it as all we were told on the day of the incident was that the other child had "been dealt with". She tried to fob him off with "data protection" as an excuse for not being able to tell us what they have done. Just that it had been "severely dealt with".

Now, I think this is just a vague response in order to avoid admitting they've done sweet FA. Hoping that we go oh okay no worries and just forget about it. It's not giving out personal or identifiable information and as above, we don't even know who the child is. Surely when it comes to safeguarding, they should be able to tell parents what measures they are putting in place to protect their children? The way in which DS was assaulted, is, in my opinion, not the kind of thing you do as a first time offence, it is serious and if I had done that to another adult, I would be arrested and probably jailed. Just because they are under the age of criminal responsibility, it doesn't mean they should do nothing about it. If it's not dealt with now, who knows what that child will go on to do in the future.

"Severely dealt with" is also surely a matter of opinion? They may think it's a severe punishment, but I might not, and vice versa. For example has the child been "told off" or "lost certain privileges" or has he been suspended? Bit of a difference.

We are going back in on Friday for a more formal chat and DH has told the head that he wants answers to his questions and we are not going to let it go until we are satisfied with the response. She seemed very flustered and didn't quite know what to say, which tells me that she knows she can't bullshit her way out of this situation with her usual tactics.

Thankfully, DH is, shall we say, very assertive, but does anyone with inside knowledge of this type of thing have any advice?

This is a joke, right? What would the police do?

Ahh OP I understand your frustration but the school cannot tell you any more than it has been dealt with with regards to consequences and sanctions for all the reasons explained above.

They can and should tell you how they are going to make sure it doesn't happen again.

DS2 was strangled with a tie and stabbed with a fork when he was in Y2. The DC who did it was in DS1s class and I was friends with his mother. I knew the issues behind his behaviour, the school knew I knew the issues behind his behaviour and still I was only entitled to know that they had dealt with the matter in line with their policies.

This is ever so helpful, but is probably what the OP was expecting of hoping the majority of replies would say tbh

Where have I said I don't accept that we won't be told in my subsequent posts? I've responded to other posters, and asked questions and giving examples to try and understand better.

The response we were given was "data protection", I've asked questions about what that means and others have responded and I now understand. I have some knowledge of GDPR but in a different sector/capacity and had no idea the school was so different in that respect.

Your child has been assaulted and suffered personal injury. [Admittedly by the sound of it not something worth very much in terms of damages/ pain suffering & loss of amenity (as its described in personal injury law) - it could have been far worse he could have broken an arm].

You could (not saying this is a good idea which it isn't because the child is still at the school and it's probably not worth much - I say probably because sometimes you can be surprised - psychiatric injury for example) bring a legal claim against the school on behalf of your child - the issue would be whether the school were negligent in failing to protect your child. This would involve looking at what systems they have in place to prevent assault, whether in this case it was foreseeable (the assailant had assaulted other children and the school were on notice for example), and usually what steps were taken afterwards is relevant to the systems and care. If nothing happens for example, whats their case about why it won't happen again.

If you issued legal proceedings, all of the documentation and information the school hold regarding the assault and what was done following it would be "disclosable documents" in the litigation - ie. you'd be entitled to see them. They are entitled to redact some information - eg legal advice or personal data of others (like the child's name or home addresses etc) - but that is totally separate from the substantive content of the documents - eg. an incident report,emails about how to many it etc

If legal proceedings are intimated, there is a duty on parties to co-operate which includes sometimes sharing information and documents.

Depends how strongly you feel about it (and as I said, bear in mind that you still have/need a co-operative relationship with the school so being heavy handed is probably not wise) but hinting, suggesting or even directly stating via a solicitor that you are considering legal proceedings against the school for negligence for allowing the assault (which would involve disclosure of documents) but that if you are reassured that they systems in place are adequate to protect your child you may take a different view - and that an essential part of that reassurance from your perspective is what steps were taken afterwards - you may get the information you want.

I'm not saying any of this is a good idea at all - I'm just offering as a potential tool/lever as an answer to "data protection" - which relates to the personal information of an identifiable person - and not to the safety and disciplinary systems of the school

Im intrigued by this, would the police actually do anything about a 6/7 year olds actions in school.

You said that you think that the heads information of 'it has been dealt with' is vague bullshit and being fobbed off

That is all you will be told

You then said that you're not going to be fobbed off with 'vague bullshit and none answers' - so what is it you are going to do when you're told the same thing again

What GDPR are you using as an example that you think is so different to the school's position?

Although in this theoretical claim, the issue is 'did the school fail to protect my child' and the information about what sanction/intervention took place after the incident regarding the other child is not relevant information for such a claim so would not need to be disclosed.

This. 100%.
Also I doubt the Head was 'flustered', more like trying to assess how much of a risk you were in that situation. Threatening school with your husband does nothing to reassure them of your reasonableness either. Many schools have a zero tolerance of threats and aggressive behaviour from parents and will take action if they think you are going to be a risk to staff or other children.

It's not appropriate for you to know details of how the school is managing the other pupil and it would indeed be very unprofessional to tell you. I really can't fathom why you are so fixed on the punishment aspect. You can ask if the other child is being supported so that this doesn't happen again to your child, but knowing the exact sanctions isn't going to help you. You might be disappointed if you feel they aren't severe enough, but you need to know that punishment isn't going to prevent it from happening again. Child development doesn't work like that.

I know it's horrible when another child hurts yours. It goes to your deepest, protective instincts and it's even worse if it happens while you aren't with your child.
Try to show your child that you trust the school to sort it out. Show him a grown-up response and boost his trust in the adults taking care of him. If you have doubts, collect yourself and think through things calmly before speaking to school again - out of earshot of your child.

Nothing, its not a criminal matter due to the age of responsibility and they would refer onto the school who would inform them that 'it has been dealt with'

While I would be angry that a child aged 6 or 7 had done this to my child, as someone who works in child protection my first thought about the older child would be what are they seeing at home?! That is not normal behaviour for a child of that age. It would sound like a trauma response to something. Doesn't excuse his behaviour.

If there are issues at home and there is sw involvement, it might be that they have been in touch with the social worker and you have no right to that information. It might be hes new to the area and in Foster care or his family are in accommodation with the likes of womens aid etc.

I understand that your son could ask his peers and find out the other child's name and that's fine, you would learn his name, it might even be that someone tells your son that this child missed a trip or whatever else and he then tells you.

So it may well be information you could find out through gossip but if the school discloses information that could lead to the identification of that child they have breached data protection.

Also everyone's perspective on 'appropriate' discipline is variable, so what you might consider appropriate would be different from the next parent. So they just have to stick to their behaviour policy and then tell you how they are protecting your child from anything else happening.

It's also not something that can be compared to an adult assault and the subsequent criminal proceedings.

Hope all of this makes sense.

All schools have strict GDPR in place. There are children whose information can only be shared with DSL only. There are children who come from backgrounds which make them very vulnerable, there are looked after children, children with SEN/AEN.

You've no right to any info about the other child.

You do have a right to all info about measures in place to keep your child safe.

Oh yes I expect the police to go to his house, cuff him and march him down to the custody block

Don't be so ridiculous.

It does seem odd to me that OP's fixation is on the punishment and not the ongoing safety of her child.

That along with the gleeful picture given of how 'assertive' her husband is paints an interesting picture about parenting.

Thanks for the reply but yeah that's a step too far, can't be seen to be embarrassing myself can I

YABU and it’s the “shall we say, assertive” parents (aka aggressive, why not just be upfront about who you are) that are one of the reasons so many teachers are leaving the profession.

Oh go on, do tell...

Oh, and just don't go down the legal route. A fight between a five-year-old and a six-year-old isn't an issue for the Law.
If this happens often and you're not happy with the way it's dealt with, then you could change school.

OP some people are being absolutely ridiculous on this thread.
You are being given some good advice re how your son is being safeguarded and this not happening again so follow that route with the school and don't ask anything about sanctions. They can't tell you and you will only antagonise them.

The "secrecy" about the identity of the perpetrator is a red herring because sooner or later your child will learn his name and tell you.

Do follow this up because schools are notorious for minimising violent behaviour and trying to pretend that the school does not have any bullying. Some quite appalling things have been covered up including sexual assault so don't think that you are overreacting. There actually isn't a great deal the school can do since exclusion these days seems to be a last resort.

Schools have become violent places it seems even for 6 year olds. There is a thread on Mumsnet about teachers being injured when trying to prevent a child form beating up another and it doesn't make for comforting reading.

Sorry that your child was hurt, you must be feeling awful.

You can all stop parroting the same answers now thanks, I understand that we won't be told the exact punishment. However, I will be looking at the behaviour policy as advised and asking questions about that so that I am satisfied that it has been followed. And obviously will be discussing safeguarding going forward, what measure they have put in place to ensure it won't happen again, but like I said I do feel the punishment is relevant to that, but obviously the school will disagree.

And yes I will make sure my "aggressive" husband is aware.

Jesus Christ, I don't know why I bother with this place sometimes

I'll be honest with you OP, I find it really odd that you're fixated on the other child's "punishment".

My child was injured by another child (in anger, not accidentally) at a similar age at school. I know who the other child was because my DC told me, but school didn't. They told me what had happened, what they'd done to comfort and treat my DC, and gave me some reassurance about steps they were taking to prevent it happening again.

I'm sure those steps included lengthy discussions with the other child's parents, and lots of work with that child on their behaviour and anger management.

I didn't need or want to know what punishment, if any, was being handed out.

@bellac11 Yes, definitely. I'm sensing 'eye for an eye' vibes. I would be going to strong measures to make sure the identity of the other child was protected!

Once again Mumsnet fails to provide the exact answers an OP wants to hear😞

dark times