People who won't leave a restaurant when their child is kicking up

[JanetSally]

I was having dinner in a restaurant the other evening. A couple at another table had a small baby with them in a buggy. The mother had just fed the baby and put him back down but he wasn't happy and started crying, the noise escalating and escalating. The parents, who had finished their meal, very slowly finished their coffee/wine before leaving the restaurant despite the fact that people were turning around and looking at them.

I was in a cafe recently with a friend when her toddler started tantrumming. I said I was nearly finished and happy to go, but my friend said no, we'd paid for our food and were entitled to stay. She just wasn't budging, so I took her child outside while she finished every bit of her cake.

Why do some people do this? It's very unfair on everyone else in the restaurant.

It's so refreshing to read something so honest on here. Good on you. I think pre-kids (or those with no kids) a lot of us would have been more judgy than we should have been. Maybe time also makes people with older children forget....I don't know.

ive just seen this debate on the Birmingham live Facebook page 😂

Threads like this make me feel physically sick to read. Motherhood and maternity leave has been some of the most lonely and isolating times of my life. I went to a cafe today for an hour and a half with my 2 very young children just to get out of the house as my husband has been working a lot and im really struggling. I was feeling so down and miserable I couldn't sit inside anymore. If my 2 year old had started kicking off, I would have been so reluctant to immediately pick her up and leave just to go sit at home with zero adult presence bar myself. I'm not sure I would have had the guts to do it so I would have been one of parents you are all complaining about and name calling.

These threads make me anxious to take my children places without the relentless judgement of intolerable brits. (Let's not pretend every other country has the same sit down shut up attitude towards children we seem to have).

As it stands I'm sat here literally wiping my tears as my husbands just told me he will be home late again. If I couldn't go anywhere for fear of my children crying or being difficult and having to leave immediately I'm not sure I'd survive much longer. When you make these comments about how entitled and selfish these parents are, maybe tune back to how bloody emotionally challenging looking after young children is, and the respite of being in a public setting is all that keeps some people going. On a separate note, isn't it ironic calling these parents entitled for taking their kids to these places, whilst being entitled to demand a certain level of noise.

I've never understood the UK's hatred of children in restaurants. I come from a very family-friendly European country and ever since I remember, my parents have taken me to restaurants with them and this is still the culture to this day.

With that said, it's totally unacceptable to let your children misbehave and scream in the restaurants - what usually happens is children from different tables meet, gather and play together. The "noise" you hear is a very lovely background of children's laughter, talk and play whilst their parents are having fun socialising with their friends.

Because of this, the noises children make have never bothered me in restaurants, however we avoid going out ourselves in the UK with our child since it's frowned upon here. Every time I go back to my country or we travel in Italy, Spain etc, going out with our little one is one of the loveliest things we get to do.
I do think this way of doing things is better than not going out for 8 years after you have a child, but unfortunately this is the culture here.

Agreed 100%

Sat in the waiting room at the dentist today, a couple were there with a toddler who was screaming in temper.
They were sat right next to the reception desk. One receptionist trying to deal with a patient and the other trying to take telephone calls.
All of them struggling to be heard .
This is the only time iv been glad to be called through to the dentist

Feel like doing that myself at the dentist sometimes to be fair. Good job as an adult I'm able to emotionally regulate since my brain has developed enough. What's the mum meant to do in that scenario? Take the child home and not attend a medical appointment?

@Relevanceiskey thank you for being so honest and sharing, it really is hard and I will champion maternal mental health over someone's luxury to go for a nice meal in silence any day of the week. So many people on this talking about the entitlement of parents to bring their children out, while simultaneously being entitled themselves to think their need for silence is more important than a mum getting out and about. No one is more important than the other and I think everyone should have a little bit more compassion and grace.

And for the person earlier who was shocked that someone didn't remove their barking dog from a restaurant- that is exactly how you train a dog to sit silently in a restaurant. You have to see it through with consistency otherwise the dog will associate barking with being rewarded by a walk. I would also say why ever would you go to a dog friendly eatery and not expect to see or hear dogs? It's a learning process, just like children learn best and quickest from modelled behaviours such as watching their parents while out for dinner.

This is hilarious. What are parents supposed to do in situations like these - opt out of getting sick when they have small children? Stop having teeth? Conjure up a mythical fairy-godmother to look after the children?

"Even if traveling, get some bread & cheese or takeaway and eat in the hotel room. Better that than to disturb people who ARE behaving properly in public."

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune umm... no.

Why tf should I spend my hard earned holiday sitting in a hotel room alone eating bread and cheese lest you should hear my child communicate? You do realise you can't hold a small child to the same standard of behaviour as a grown adult right?

I'm all for making sure kids old enough to run about sit at the table- that's a health and safety issue if they run into a waitress with hot food or drink for a start. But sometimes things are out of parents control too. For eg we went for dinner the other day (shock horror with my sisters kids) and it took the restaurant 1hr 30 mins to get food on our table. Now obviously we'd come prepared for a reasonable wait. It was a birthday so a special occasion so we couldn't leave without being rude, but of course after an hour and a half the kids were past themselves hungry, fed up and bored. Nothing to do with my sister. Parents can't plan for every and all scenarios nor should they be expected to.

Well, the two parents can book their appointments on separate days so they don’t need to take their toddler with them? Obviously if the appointment is for the toddler him/herself it’s a different story.

I see young families shopping in the supermarket and inevitably a child has a tantrum or acts up, and I just think why have both of you come out to do the supermarket shop and dragged these poor children with you? One parent can stay home/entertain the kids while one does the shop. It doesn’t take two adults to push a shopping trolley.

Oooh this is what the tooth fairy is actually for isn't it?! We just wait for her to come and make it all better instead of seeing the actual dentist.

Adults go to restaurants to socialize, to eat, to drink. A baby that has no idea where it is, is likely not consuming the cuisine on offer and that cannot reliably exhibit the decorum expected of restaurant patrons has no reason to be there, other than for the convenience of its parent(s). And that doesn't trump others' right to a pleasant experience.

Believe it or not, adults do have more privileges than children and babies. That's why pretty much every culture that ever existed, including ours, has rites of passage that mark the transition from childhood to adulthood. Because adults and children are not equal. Adults have more responsibilities and more privileges.

Firstly why assume there are always two parents. Maybe one parent needs to get out of the house but needs the support of the other person to do so. Maybe they've been out and about and instead of going home first decided to combine tasks to save petrol etc. Maybe they recognise their child needs to learn how to behave in that environment so it's easier with two as one can continue shopping and the other can deal with any behaviours that arise. Maybe its none of your business and its up to them to spend their time how they see fit?

And do those adults lose those privileges and rights as soon as they become parents? Do women who ebf lose all rights to exist in public spaces such as restaurants just because they cannot leave their baby at home? Do they suddenly have less rights than other adults who bottle feed or don't have children or don't have childcare? I would also argue that one of the biggest responsibilities those same adults you mention have is to treat children well, teach them and give them lots of enrichment and support to learn and grow.

I didn’t assume anything - the poster said there were two parents and their screaming toddler in the dentist waiting room.

And as for the supermarket, I live in an area where no one drives and there are multiple supermarkets within walking distance. So this isn’t a case of saving on petrol by doing one big shop. Some of the couples I see in the supermarket who subject their poor children to a very boring and unpleasant activity for a child, leading it to become stroppy and play up (unsurprisingly), are people I see out and about without their kids. So I might the mum at the nail salon, the dad waiting for the tube etc. These are not couples that need each other‘s support to leave the house. Far from it.

At evening dinner- yes they should leave. In a cafe I think it's fine.

Why are you watching and judging other people in the supermarket? So what if they wanted to shop as a family, it’s good for kids to get out and see how normal life works. My sons nursery takes them to the supermarket, the kids put the items in the basket and scan them at them at the checkout. They love it.

Its rather sad you out shopping and judging a family for shopping with their children just because one of them cried which children will do for whatever reason and wherever they may be at the time. Should they all just stay behind closed doors to not disturb you?

Can't stand hearing screaming/tantrumming kids when I'm out, but wouldn't expect the parents to get up and leave the meal they've paid for. It's a public place and if young children are allowed in these restaurants then you have to understand things like this might happen.

Letting them run wild and cause chaos without attempting to discipline them is a different matter though.

I don’t judge - if a child enjoys going to the supermarket then that’s great. I’m talking about when the child clearly doesn’t enjoy it and is in fact distressed by it. If this can be avoided by one parent staying home with the child/taking them elsewhere then that’s just common sense, surely.

Apologies I missed the part in the post where it said it was a couple at the appointment. I still think they could have their own reasons though, maybe there is a concern for the child's teeth, maybe mum is ebf post section and needs to attend the appointment and needs help to do so, could be for anxiety reasons, maybe they're going straight to another appointment after, who knows- I still don't think that's any business of the general public.

It’s very likely it was the child who had the appointment. I mean, if my husband had a dental appointment we wouldn’t all go as a family day out.

Some people just love to watch other peoples lives and make judgey assumptions yet have no clue what the reasons are and nor do they have any right to just as you said.

Have you ever tried to reason with a toddler? They are the most illogical little beings, they could love nothing more than going to the supermarket on Monday and on Tuesday have the biggest meltdown seen by mankind. Parents can't always predict how their child will respond to any given situation just because they liked it yesterday.

I take my kids shopping with me, sometimes they’re fine, other times they’ll get pissed off. I can’t predict how they’ll be. Sometimes we’re shopping as a family if we’ve been somewhere prior and pop in before we go home.

kids are unpredictable and naturally they sometimes cry. We can’t always rearrange our day to day lives due to it to not upset others who just can’t stand children who are seen and heard. they have as much right in society as anyone else.

I can only think back to when I was a toddler. My parents set the rules: “No, you can’t come to the supermarket” and that was that. They were very clear on what was for adults and what was for children, generally. We knew our place. Pretty scary at the time haha.

That was ~30 years ago though. I understand parenting has changed somewhat and I do find threads like this interesting to read as someone who hasn’t had children (yet). I suspect I will be much more of a ‘gentle’ parent than my parents (DP even more so!) so I am expecting a lot of tantrums and bad behaviour 😬