to ask views on the 5-year-old cycling and Sajid Javid video?

[allswellthatends]

Maybe this has been debated to death already because the story came out Nov 11 but it's not showing up on search here. A dad's helmet camera catches a driver passing his 5yo by what he felt was too close, and Sajid Javid and Jeremy Vine got into a disagreement about what the driver should have done.

I live in London and I think (hope) I'm very good with cyclists if only because I'm not usually in a rush. Also I cycle, and my children cycle more. And I'm used to the countryside rule of not coming too close to horse riders . In this particular case, a small child, I would have stopped completely or slowed to a crawl.

Still, London roads are very narrow, traffic is generally quite slow-moving anyway, and so observing a 1.5m distance isn't always practical. It seemed to me that it also makes a difference if the driver is coming towards the cyclist (who can therefore see the car) or from behind (which as a cyclist I find much more unnerving). The type of cyclist in general: 20-35 year-old racing steadily, I'm less worried than with a shaky-ish person on a heavy rental bike; I'll stop for a cyclist panting uphill. I totally get why my fellow-cyclists don't always stop for red lights: sometimes it's safer to go first while the cars are forced to stop, and also it's bad to lose your momentum and your balance. Then again I LOATHE those cargo bikes where parents move very slowly in a vehicle that blocks the full road, with precious cargo, but commonly at school/work rush hour. And cyclists who don't wear reflective gear and lights at night are idiots IMHO. (Actually so are pedestrians. Don't you folks realise that even to the most careful driver you're basically invisible?)

I kind of want to hear some thoughtful real-world practices from my fellow drivers and cyclists and parents.

More kids transported on cargo bikes on the school run, the better

I'd have kittens seeing my child cycling on the road if they were 50 let alone 5.
That dad has inhaled too much toxoplasmosis.

Couldn't agree more.

Newbookshelf, transporting kids in cars is also pretty dangerous

I haven't watched the video but a 5 year old riding a bike on a busy road is a recipe for disaster tbh.

yes, overpopulation is a problem. It seems a radical solution though.

It's a backstreet with pinch points

The 5-year-old child saw the danger and asked "should I pull over to the side" and his dad said no. The driver should have given way, but did slow down, probably thinking "WTF, is that a small child on a bike in the middle of the road on a bike?" It wasn't a boy racer.

Do any of you drive? Do you really think you can see a 5-year old well, riding a tiny bike, over the bonnet of a car?

Yes, drivers need to be really careful of cyclists, and a very good driver will be mindful and give way. However, it doesn't take brains to pass a test, does it?

In a lovely utopia, everyone would be riding around on bikes, with no cars, but unfortunately this is not the way of the world. What if it was a fire engine screaming down the road or an ambulance?

I actually saw a terrible accident last year involving a cyclist. It was a young woman knocked off a bike by a lorry. She died.

Yes, motorists need to be careful of cyclists, but MY GOD, that dad is irresponsible. What's next? Marbles on the motorway?

The father put his child in harms way to prove a point.
A 5 year year old should not be cycling on the road whatever the law states, children do not see the dangers that an adult would spot. Although in this case the child seemed to have more sense than the father and if that was my child my DH ears would still be ringing.
The car should have waited, lots of cars should do things that they don't. If everyone drove perfectly and within the law there would be no accidents and no need for seatbeats, airbags or carseats. Drivers are human and sometimes make the wrong choices and we should understand that and do everything we can to protect ourselves and our children.

Do any of you drive? Do you really think you can see a 5-year old well, riding a tiny bike, over the bonnet of a car?

yes have I have driven for 30 years. The driver could easily see the kid and had clearly taken some kind of action but just the wrong kind of action.

The age of the child would be unknown to the driver and shouldn't inform the quality of your driving

Wether you agree with the father or not the child was in the road and the driver chose to drive badly around them.

That's it, the long and the short. You don't risk someone's life with your own manoeuvre because you think they're doing something stupid

If you can't see a kid, you shouldn't be on the road. Hzards I've seen recently... dogs cats, children... and a swan wandering around on a duel carriageway.

My view is that regardless of the age of the cyclist, vans should never be passing that close or driving impatiently. The lad looked like a good, steady, confident cyclist on the video.

The PP above mentioned having an mx5 and people completely missing it.
i 100% agree this is part of the problem, I’ve got a small car and people create extra lanes around it because they can “squeeze” through. It gets missed at round abouts because it’s small. You have to drive defensively as a result. If it happens to a four seater car, it will happen to cyclists etc worse.

I wonder if the car driver even saw the small child or just thought “I can squeeze through”. The child would be lower than a lot of SUV rear screens and completely out of view for a lot of them. multi lane round abouts / junctions where the car on the right lane creep forward blocking your view is an absolute pain in smaller lower cars.
Car manufacturers used to be regulated as to bumper heights etc, it caused design constraints but certainly seems sensible.

as for the EV push and exhaust fumes. Have you seen the machinery involved in mining the battery metals?!

Do any of you drive? Do you really think you can see a 5-year old well, riding a tiny bike, over the bonnet of a car?

I wouldn't drive a car with such a big bonnet that I couldn't see a 5 year old in the road on a bike or otherwise. And in a van you usually have excellent front visibility. The "I didn't see you, mate" excuse is always inexcusable, as you ALWAYS should have seen the more vulnerable road user.

Father and child riding in accordance with the law.

Driver driving contrary to the highway code.

MN Car fanatics: bUt ThE fAtHeR.

I drive a Sharan (7 seater SPV) and until recently a Tiguan (4x4), now we have a smaller car. All really excellent visbility front, rear and all round and you'd definitely see a five year old on a bike in a bright red jacket.

The driver was slow, it was dark-ish and raining, the car’s headlights were on BUT the kid doesn’t appear to have any lights on at all.

The car probably should have stopped but did appear to slow down, the kid probably shouldn’t have been on the road.

Is anyone really suggesting that driver can't see below waist height at the distance shown in the video? So you think they've got no idea what's right in front of them?

Yeah sounds likely

I’ve just gone back and watched the video again. The driver would have seen the child even in the shit weather. However they had BOTH committed to overtake the parked cars at roughly the same time, and due to the double parking the cyclist would have priority under the new Highway Code rules. However in practice in this instance I think they both expected the other to give way and both could have driven / ridden more defensively and could easily have been resolved by one backing off slightly to get to the gap.

the child would still be hidden by some SUVs and vans though. Certainly with the high windows of them. Although children should be safe cycling on the roads, I wouldn’t risk it.

I can not stand the type of parents that use the cargo bikes with tiny children barely strapped in, no helmets in flimsy carts on main roads with cars speeding by at 40mph and they still do it! Because they believe they are entitled to use the road regardless, like making a point on the back of their child's safety.

It is absolutely lethal, more so in the winter, in rush hour traffic is chaotic and dangerous and no drivers won't always notice until it is far too late.

Then they get angry - but the roads are what they are, and the danger is what it is, if you want to subject tiny kids to the exhaust fumes, the danger and the risk of huge metal machines going at breakneck speed - so be it, but it is YOUR risk and YOUR child at stake.

I hate them and do give them much more space as a result of seeing just how vulnerable they are.

same as kids crossing roads I give way a lot and expect them to get it wrong. More so at the start of the school year with the year 7’s, it takes a skill to read the roads

They are both 'wrong'. The car driver clearly took action just the wrong action. The father should not be letting a 5 year old cycle on the road. 5 year olds don't have the skills to safely judge risk, anticipate what a driver may or may not do and take the correct evasive action if necessary. It's advised children can't cross a road safely until 8 years old (at a minimum). If they don't have the skills to cross a road they definitely shouldn't be cycling on one!!

I do think that it whether or not the law is in your favour, if you're driving a car you stay as far away as you can from a five year old riding a bike. And honestly if you are a driver and you think you wouldn't have seen the kid on the bike in that video you need to stop driving.

I agree about the small car thing and my approach to driving has definitely changed over the years as more SUV's have hit the roads. I have to drive way more defensively nowadays as it seems that SUV drivers are only looking for other SUV drivers!

Personally I think a lot of drivers think they can squeeze through or they assess slower road users and force themselves in front to avoid being held up. Safety sadly takes second place over personal gain.

I'm with you 100% with your post except the EV battery thing sadly. EV's push exhaust fumes away from cities where they kill thousands every year. Outside of schools where parents idle their cars to keep warm etc. Yes battery mining is probably not pleasant but compared to what? Oil extraction and transportation? It's probably on par or better so why raise that when no-one bats an eyelid with fossil fuel? Plus battery mining has gone on for years to power personal electronic devices, where usage is far more widespread. Yet EV's get the bad rep, which is totally disproportionate/unreasonable.