Prince Andrew taken back into the fold this weekend.

[Wishiwasinmalta]

AIBU or will the popularity of the RF drop like a lead balloon if they keep on doing this?

Ignorance of the law is no defence.

A genuine belief that a person is over the age of consent is

And at what age is this relevant? I mean, sexualised behaviour is sadly really common in children who have been sexually abused. It’s because it’s been normalised for them, and it’s a trauma response to act that out again. So a man molesting an an 8 year old rape victim acting in a sexualised way because of her trauma can’t be expected to know better, is that right? Because she is the one who is acting sexualised in the first place.

Or is it when she’s 12 that it’s ok for the man to take advantage of her trauma? Or 14?

Or, in fact, should we expect men not to take advantage of what had disgustingly been referred to as their ‘good luck’ when a child or teenager is available to them sexually, through force or trauma? Should men maybe just take some responsibility for themselves?

A genuine belief that a person is over the age of consent is

It doesn't matter what age a trafficked person is. They can't consent.

@JudgeJ

Exactly.

VG was underage by the laws of the country from where she came. Regardless there is no age of consent in sex trafficking so it’s irrelevant. Sex trafficking victims cannot consent.

you’re clearly very wrapped up in your own trauma. That’s understandable. But you should also realise that your experience is not the experience of all victims. You cannot speak for everyone. VG has spoken of her experience. You can attempt to dismiss it and override it with your own, but you are not her. You were not there.

you may be happy to excuse men who befriend convicted sex offenders and then choose to have sex with girls provided by those child abuse criminals, but I don’t.

I think people with a basic level of cognitive function are able to see that situation is problematic and should take responsibility for their choices.

I am not even going to bother dissecting that tosh.

Exactly! Thank you @Kanaloa

🤷‍♀️
compelling argument.

thanks for your contribution 😂

@Canthave2manycats Because there is no answer. She is right.

Isn’t it just a bit fucking tragic? Men can’t be expected not to rape trafficked teens because maybe the teens said they wanted it, in which case how would the man know it was wrong?

That’s exactly how I feel. Epstein was convicted of awful crimes and PA still stayed with him in his house. That’s appalling. That’s a fact and enough to make him undeserving of a public royal role.

No, I am saying that once you are over the age of consent then the law doesn't address issues of coercion/grooming. And I understand why.

Trafficking is illegal at any age. You either do not understand the law or are being disingenuous.

The alternative is? 'good' girls don't have sex when they want? because no good girl could want a one night stand?

Reading some comments on this thread make it clear how Rotherham happened.

Law is not retrospective, and that one was not in place at the time the events happened.

Except it does.
cos trafficking laws exist. And despite several of us mentioning them you keep ignoring that.

and regardless of law there’s a massive moral problem with Andrew hanging out with/ potentially having sex with girls presented to him by a convicted sex criminal

@RoseAndRose You are wrong.
Do you think Andrew lied in the televised interview and paid out 12 million for giggles?

Umm.. no that’s not the alternative.

the alternative is ‘powerful rich men in positions of power shouldn’t have sex with teenagers presented to them by sex offenders’

it’s really not that difficult,

I was actually thinking exactly the same thing. Have you read the book by Maggie Oliver? Those poor poor girls.

The alternative is grown men don’t try to have sex with teenagers. No matter how much the girls ‘want it.’ It’s genuinely not rocket science.

He's their dad/uncle/brother etc. He's not committed a crime (don't argue, he's done nothing illegal)

He's not playing an active role in the RF, he just spent time with them privately.

Perhaps we should mind our own fucking business. He still lives with Fergie and near his daughters. They're not going to cut off their dad and ex-husband/probably boyfriend to appease the Mumsnet massive.

I have not read the book although I read the report.
So many people saw the girls as consenting.
Just like posters on here.
It shows you why teenage girls will continue to be groomed and sex trafficked without anyone intervening.

Because I believe adult women - over the age of consent - should be able to make choices about their sexual behaviour that include one night stands.

And be sexually positive and make the first move.

I recognise that being making the first move can be due to abuse and coercion.

Abused and coerced women are unlikely to say they are abused/coerced if asked.

The only way I can see to avoid women being coerced/abused is to insist sex only happens in a long-term relationship. But long-term relationships include women being abused/coerced

And nobody should mine their own fucking business when teenagers are trafficked for sex,