For welcoming Jennifer Anniston’s honesty about her struggle to have children

[RhubarbRocks]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63576100

As someone who went though multiple rounds of unsuccessful IVF in my late 30s and early 40s it’s good to see this normalised in the news. It sometimes feels very isolating when you can’t have children (not least here when it’s sometimes questioned why childless women are here - I joined during ivf and have stayed for all the other non child related chats!)

So not really an AIBU but maybe a question/observation about the assumptions we make about whether a woman does/doesn’t have children.

Oh, how lovely.

I’ll be sure to tell my lovely friend next time that she’s feeling sad about not having met anyone, that someone on Mumsnet reckons it’s just her ‘personality’ that’s the problem. That’ll make her feel so much better I’m sure.

Saying ‘it doesn’t always work out like that for everyone’ really shouldn’t be a controversial statement but sadly it seems people like you are absolutely determined to make it a woman’s fault, one way for another, if she doesn’t end up having kids for whatever reason.

Fucking hell please tell me this is sarcasm.

Damn right I expect my husband to be my friend as well as my lover. Did I get it wrong?

I think it's ignorant to assume that a woman who waited until their 30s or late 30s isn't aware of female biology. There could be lots of reasons why they put it off. And I bet in a lot of cases it's not a conscious decision to do so. Life can get in the way and years run away from you. I suffered from different issues in my 20s and wasn't in a stable relationship and so it didn't make sense to prioritize having a child then, especially at the expense of so much.

However, having said that, I do think there could be better education in general on this subject, as I have seen a few posts on MNs from people who, for example, think regular periods mean you're fertile. Also, some people do think freezing eggs or IVF is a guarantee.

Maybe we should go back to encouraging young women to settle down with men a bit older than them. Sigh.

You have a point. Albeit a sad one.

OLD doesn't help when daters men are always waiting on a better swipe, enjoying dates as an endless thrill in wait for the right one which never comes when they think there's better times ahead.

It’s very ironic that we have two threads on AIBU right now.

One where posters are falling over themselves to state that they’d never judge a woman for having kids and that they’re astonished that anyone would, because society really doesn’t distinguish between women who gave kids and women who don’t!!!!

And this one, which is 16 pages of people judging one woman for not having kids.

There'll never be a perfect solution but I'm wondering if the pendulum should swing back and people go back to arranging in person meetups and singles nights so people can meet in the flesh like they used to and lose the supermarket/sweet shop/wish list swiping of online dating. I guess you can't put that genie back in the bottle, though...and post pandemic, people seem less likely to want to get out.

I initially thought OLD was a great way of getting paths to cross that wouldn't otherwise, but I didn't foresee swiping and how it would all go.

I think advising women to date men who are older only works when the woman is still very young herself. Once a woman is late twenties or early thirties, it’s a better strategy to actually date younger men, as a serious chunk of the “good” men (I kind of hate that term so maybe read: compatible men who have similar family values and ambitions) are already in a serious relationship or marriage by their mid to late twenties.

On the dog page when people adopt a dog that’s had 2-3 homes in its life the thread is full of poor dog, no wonder it has separation anxiety etc. Are you really suggesting a newborn baby has no trauma as a result of this?

You're comparing an adopted child to a rescue dog?
😂
All adopted children do not suffer trauma and all adopted children do not have attachment problems or separation anxiety.

How it should be? There’s no one right way of doing things.

We met when we were young, got our degrees, got careers, travelled as a couple, bought a house in our early 20s, had kids, travelled with kids. Now we’re early 40s, our kids are mid-late teens and we travel in school holidays, have a second home we travel to regularly. I think we’ve had the best of both worlds. And our kids will be independent by our late 40s.

I wouldn’t want to be have toddlers now but I wouldn’t dream of telling someone we did it how it ‘should’ be done. Different things work for different people. So much depends on when you meet your life partner, if you ever do. It’s stupid and a rude to say there’s a certain way things ‘should’ be done just because it’s how you’ve done things or how they’ve worked out for you.

Name change as my other name has outing posts combined with this one.

There is definitely still a stigma about a woman without children. I've had it since my early 30s (now 40). I've experienced lots of odd projection from other women about it. I just don't bring it up now and I get the aww and sad face when asked do you have kids?

I am a bit sad I didn't have any but it was a medical reason (genetic condition) and a choice sort of combined. I had an awful childhood and only by this age have I sorted my own issues out.

It would take another decade plus to be mentally okay to be a parent after taking that long to undo all the terrible things from my upbringing so I ended up thinking I'd rather regret not having them then throw the dice and regret fucking up another person's life.

I wish I could talk more freely about it in real life as I think it's good to normalise it for young women that might be like me but alas the awful stigma is real!!

A lot of differing opinion on her and all valid. I think we can all agree with the original post that Brad and Jen would both be better off had they stayed together though.

No I’m saying you are expecting newborn babies to suffer trauma that you wouldn’t put a dog through!

Every single adopted child has experienced trauma. Not all suffer from it, not all are affected by it. Not all develop attachment disorders as a result but they have all experienced at least some trauma.

Even those given up voluntary as a newborn, from a mother who had appropriate behaviour and care in pregnancy and skipped foster care going straight to the adopter have suffered the loss of their birth parents (and that situation is as rare as hens teeth).

But of course all the adopters commenting on here are wrong.
All the adults who were adopted commenting on here are wrong.
All the foster carers and adopters posting on the adoption boards are wrong.
The social workers placing these children fit adoption are wrong.
The psychologists researching and producing evidence and training based on adoption trauma are wrong.
The therapists working with children to help them deal with this trauma are wrong.

You with your ONE experience of ONE child are right. Makes sense.

evidence.nihr.ac.uk/alert/adopted-children-may-develop-specific-types-of-post-traumatic-stress/

But who knows what goes on behind closed doors so how can any of us know that?

Why do we all agree that? I don't know either of them. Presumably they broke up for a reason.

@ReneBumsWombats

Because Jen would have the babies she wanted and Brad would presumably still be able to see his kids - as even if they split I can’t see Jen being as Vindictive as Ange and trying to stop him from seeing the children.

Plus Jen has aged way better than Ange, I mean look at the picture. Hope I have that body in a decade (or now or ever😫)

What on earth are you on about

Good God this thread. I don't even know what to say.

@namechangechildfree

If Brad and Jen had of stayed together instead of him being duped by Ange, the Jen would probably have had children. And Brad would probably still see them unlike the children he has with Angelina Jolie who - as she maliciously tries to cut him out their lives.

”free 24/7 childcare”? Why even bother with kids if you want someone else to raise them 24/7

This is exactly the kind of misogyny which leads to women who want them not having dcs.

Access to 24/7 childcare isn't about dcs being in childcare 168 hours in the week. It was a key aim of feminism in the uk in the 70s to enable women to continue working in non 9-5 roles after dc. You know like nursing, midwifery, medicine, law, jobs with travel, executive jobs etc. women don't have dcs in their 20s because if they are in a non 9-5 job they can only return to work if they rely on a dp, family or a very expensive out of hours nanny.

Talk about victim blaming!

I've just read 6 pages of Jenny and Jessica from the block or with the rabbits arguing about 'Ange' and 'Jen'. I feel like I'm in Bo selecta.

Why has this turned into 'Team Angie' versus 'Team Jen' nonsense?

2005 called. It wants its gossip stories back.

And is someone seriously referring to a woman as "a bitter crone"? On a mostly female discussion forum?

Yes but you sound a little over invested.

Oh wow I missed the bitter crone bit. Nice. Go away.