Is behaviour this bad in all schools now?!

[Growingmyhairout]

I am a supply teacher who's in a long term role but don't think I can deal with it.
I'm in a non core subject which doesn't help, one that pupils find difficult and don't have to do a GCSE in.
I was covering a 2 week sickness in one boys school, but couldn't have done anymore as behaviour was awful.
I'm now at what's been called a very challenging school. However I've walked past some other lessons and all kids are silent pretty much.
I've been here for a few weeks now so the kids know I'm not there just for a day or anything, yet no improvements.
I've been suggested to ring parents but if I did I'd be making 45 calls an evening which there is just not the time to do, especially for £110 a day gross.
I do give detentions, warnings etc. But it doesn't make much difference.
Some kids will just get up and walk out of your lesson when they feel like it. Or kids who aren't even in your lesson will turn up and sit in the room.
Coats on, phones out, earphones in, eating. When I tell them not to, some kids will listen but some will literally just ignore you. Swinging on chairs, shouting across the room, fighting, swearing.
Each lesson I send a few out to other classrooms which helps to an extent.
The worst are cover lessons though, as I'm used for cover as well as my own classes. Cover is an absolute nightmare.
I record everything but don't know what difference it makes.
Throwing things across the room, putting make up on. Answering me back very rudely.
Just all talking loudly and ignoring me. I refuse to shout over them as I've already got a hoarse voice from raising it.
I email heads of year, sometimes they will come in if they're not busy.
Some lessons are alright, but there's an insane level of disrespect.
As I said I've been here a few weeks now, how long is it going to take?
I've got a TA in all lessons which I'm really grateful about, but they don't seem to respect her much either.
We had an ok class this morning once the worst were removed, but had an absolutely horrendous year 7 group. She said she'd never seen a school like it.
I've been offered long-term, part time cover in another school. I'm tempted to go, but I'm thinking what's the point?
It's just going to be the same everywhere isn't it? I'm not expecting kids to sit in absolute silence for 5 hours a day but the behaviour is unacceptable. I'll be trying to speak and many students will just carry on having their own conversation.
I also feel like I'd be letting down the school who've even given me a TA when most other teachers don't get one.
I feel like a failure as a teacher. I think I've been firm but fair, but I don't think I can do this. Is behaviour really this bad in all schools?

@MarrymeKeanu

They try too. Many times you ring a parent and they go mad at you for daring to sanction their child who can do no wrong.

I think a lot of schools are like this. There are some glaring similarities in what you describe in my current school and I taught supply in schools that were exactly the same. At the end of the day the real reason is cuts, cuts, cuts. Cuts to social care and early help for families who are struggling, material poverty affecting children moods and their home life (parents working all hours and absent from parenting for instance), cuts to school budgets that mean that staff at all levels - especially on the behaviour front - are spread so thin they can’t make a dent in the behaviour, cuts to youth clubs and other activities that might give children some purpose and focus, cuts to CAMHS (a huge concern), cuts to SEN funding and budgets (by steadily making EHCPs much harder to get) plus of course the cost of living (whilst free school meal eligibility has been changed). Oh and then you have the mass exodus of teachers from the profession. All of these things contribute to an absolute shitstorm in lots of schools. I once read about ‘compounded deprivation’ in schools and that is what is going on. Schools and the behaviour in them are a reflection on society and right now lots of people are up creek without a paddle, so the kids are too.

@PrimarilyParented

Yep, they are very much a reflection of society all under one roof.

No. If we make children feel an inch tall we get an aggressive parent in reception demanding a meeting, a formal complaint that takes ages to deal with and a kid whose behaviour is even worse because they've been emboldened by their mum laughing at home about how she sorted out the school. She might even post about it on social media too, to garner support from like minded parents.

Not the case in DD's school, or the school a good friend teaches at. Both 'bog standard' comps, that have good behaviour and results.

Nor the state primary a good friend TAs at as a 1-to-1 for a child with an EHCP

Wasn't the case at the 'bog standard comp' I went to back in the day.

Isn't the case at the other two local schools (bog standard etc etc) my friends' children attend.

We're in a London borough, not a leafy commuter belt.

Surely you've seen all the threads on mn about schools impacting their child's mental health by giving them a detention, blaming them in any way for any incident, not challenging them enough, challenging them too much, not giving them star of the week in the first half term, making them sit a test, making them miss a bit of playtime, not noticing they didn't drink much water, telling them to wait five minutes before going to the loo because you're exposing something, enforcing the uniform/hairstyle/any other policy.

It was like this and worse in the state school I attended years and years ago. Behaviour was miles better in the private school I attended though.
Behaviour seems pretty good in the schools my children attend.
Maybe teach in a private school? Or one of those super strict state schools?

I’ve been doing primary supply this year and the behaviour has been shocking. Really, really horrendous. All the teachers and TAs I speak to say the same, in all different schools.

My kids also tell me of what goes on in their secondary classes and it’s unbelievable what the teachers and the rest of the children have to put up with.

I’m pleased to see from this thread that it’s not all schools, but I seriously worry for society at the moment.

I really believe that the erosion of behaviour standards is in large part due to parental attitudes. Schools willing to stand up to unreasonable parents seem to fare better but then staff are subjected to hateful social media posts and similar.

@OneWildNightWithJBJ

I used to manage a medical room in a bog standard comp so I was often on first aid duty. I never expected to be delivering first aid to teachers though or giving medical advice.

Off the top of my head there were a couple of serious incidents…

• One teacher had a laser shone into her eye in science so had to rush to the eye department.

• one student poured six sachets of salt into a teachers can of Coke on a hot day in the classroom whilst she wasn’t looking

• one pregnant teacher had her chair removed whilst she was about to sit down and she injured her coccyx quite badly and was very shaken up

I was only there for one academic year.

My anxious autistic DD has to leave the class every time they are taught by a supply teacher because the class misbehaves so much and it turns into chaos. I sympathise, it must be a thankless job. I am trying to find a new school for her but am struggling as people keep telling me the other options aren’t any different.

I think you’ll find their behaviour at school is a knock on effect from their lives outside school not the other way around 🤔

@DarkKarmaIlama I have no words… Just shocking. What on earth is going on with kids that they think these things are acceptable?!

How do you know? You're not in the lessons.
Even the nicest of kids in the leafiest of schools will play up an adult if they sniff out a (perceived) weakness.

Nail on the head here

Yes it does. I've heard of teenagers being fired from work experience they were doing in less than a week because of bad attitude

I work in primary and staff are assaulted on a daily basis. That's from 4 and 5 year olds right up to 11/12 year olds. Being told to F off and being called a C**t are common placed. The level of violence and disrespect is shocking but it's becoming normalised as so common. No support, nothing happens. No Consequences. I am honestly starting to fear for the future.
Our P1 teacher was punched, bitten, kicked, scratched, told to F off and called a fat F*ing idiot today. That's 5 year olds. Parents don't care and those who do are in crisis already.

That is shocking

Is it a deprived area

Because they know head of year will send them home

Secondary teacher here. I would say that most bog standard comps are exactly like this. All my teacher friends are saying the same. It’s not an easy job at all.

Jesus.

my sons is in year 4 no one would ever ever swear neither kids nor parents pta raised £18,000 last year to help refurbished the staff room

leave just leave
no
one gets paid enough to be assaulted

They know you are supply, they know you can't really do anything with their behaviour.

Schools are tough places particularly for supply.

Make sure you send them to the hod To escalate the sanction.

Be consistent and quite tough on them.
Phone parents. Give detentions and escalate sanctions

Strange - I read an identical post to this in the past. Did you post this exact same post before OP? It was almost word for word the same. It must have been a fair few months ago.

OP I feel your pain. I taught secondary for 10 years across 3 different schools. If I hadn't have found a job teaching in primary, I probably would have left teaching altogether!

The worst classes, I had to split them into those students who wanted to learn at the front and those who didn't at the back.

My dd1 is in Y9 at a good state comp. She regularly tells me how badly the supply teachers are being treated by the others (often boys) on her classes. Some days she has several different (non-specialist) supply teachers in a row and she dreads them as they can't control the class. Half the lesson is spent sending the rowdy children out, then there hardly any time left for learning.

Thankfully, it's eaiser to teach at primary level imho. The children are less likely to back chat, still want to please and are keen to learn. I actually get to teach nowadays (albeit to a lower level), rather than firefight/crowd control/mediate. Having said that, at my last primary, I did have a child tell me to F off once and we did have rather challenging behaviour from some. But it was less severe than at secondary thankfully.

In your shoes, I would definitely try the other school first before considering giving up completely. A different school can be the positive change you need 🤞

Yes it's a deprived area but when you follow teaching forums online it sounds similar all over. No one seems to give a shit when staff are assaulted. TAs are allowed to go home but teachers aren't - probably because there's no budget for supply.

I would leave but there's nowhere else to go - no jobs up here and I can't afford to have no income, or even reduce my income.