Is behaviour this bad in all schools now?!

[Growingmyhairout]

I am a supply teacher who's in a long term role but don't think I can deal with it.
I'm in a non core subject which doesn't help, one that pupils find difficult and don't have to do a GCSE in.
I was covering a 2 week sickness in one boys school, but couldn't have done anymore as behaviour was awful.
I'm now at what's been called a very challenging school. However I've walked past some other lessons and all kids are silent pretty much.
I've been here for a few weeks now so the kids know I'm not there just for a day or anything, yet no improvements.
I've been suggested to ring parents but if I did I'd be making 45 calls an evening which there is just not the time to do, especially for £110 a day gross.
I do give detentions, warnings etc. But it doesn't make much difference.
Some kids will just get up and walk out of your lesson when they feel like it. Or kids who aren't even in your lesson will turn up and sit in the room.
Coats on, phones out, earphones in, eating. When I tell them not to, some kids will listen but some will literally just ignore you. Swinging on chairs, shouting across the room, fighting, swearing.
Each lesson I send a few out to other classrooms which helps to an extent.
The worst are cover lessons though, as I'm used for cover as well as my own classes. Cover is an absolute nightmare.
I record everything but don't know what difference it makes.
Throwing things across the room, putting make up on. Answering me back very rudely.
Just all talking loudly and ignoring me. I refuse to shout over them as I've already got a hoarse voice from raising it.
I email heads of year, sometimes they will come in if they're not busy.
Some lessons are alright, but there's an insane level of disrespect.
As I said I've been here a few weeks now, how long is it going to take?
I've got a TA in all lessons which I'm really grateful about, but they don't seem to respect her much either.
We had an ok class this morning once the worst were removed, but had an absolutely horrendous year 7 group. She said she'd never seen a school like it.
I've been offered long-term, part time cover in another school. I'm tempted to go, but I'm thinking what's the point?
It's just going to be the same everywhere isn't it? I'm not expecting kids to sit in absolute silence for 5 hours a day but the behaviour is unacceptable. I'll be trying to speak and many students will just carry on having their own conversation.
I also feel like I'd be letting down the school who've even given me a TA when most other teachers don't get one.
I feel like a failure as a teacher. I think I've been firm but fair, but I don't think I can do this. Is behaviour really this bad in all schools?

I teach in an outstanding comp. Behaviour is generally ok with some kids who are difficult. I just find my tolerance and patience for it wears thin much more nowadays.

Mine are in a strict single sex girls with best results in county. It’s a state school but is not like this. Awful to hear.

You are assuming that a teacher can go up to a pupil, grab their arm or wrist, and physically wrestle the phone or food out of their hand. Because in the worst schools or classes the pupil won't just hand it over.
The teacher would lose their job if they did that.

That's so rude

I’ve been teaching 25 years and went to a rough comp myself. There has always been horrendous behaviour, some schools, some classes etc. When I got to Uni I was surprised that not all my peers had seen kids swearing at teachers, coming in drunk etc. Over my career I have seen it all and in school in challenging areas you do need a robust behaviour policy, consistently held up by all staff and supported by Senior Leaders.

I honestly feel it has got tougher in all schools over the past few years. Many teaching groups, networks of teachers and heads agree with this.

Many things can be blamed, within school and then the wider community undiagnosed SEN, underfunded support for SEN and definitely mental health (nearly 20 suicide attempts last school year at our school alone), national teacher shortage, lack of support staff, Social Care overwhelmed so lack of support and pressure on families, chaotic home life and lack of boundaries, smart phone addiction, vaping addiction, drug use. We have seen it all in our school, mixed cohort, rural and Ofsted Good. If it’s got that bit harder here the already challenging schools will have got unbearable.

If we Strike next year we’ll get called lazy entitled arses, probably by some feckless gobby parent who didn’t bother to come into school to discuss support we’ve trying to give their suicidal child!

Sadly, 2 years at home and they've all forgotten manners etc.

I'm a visiting lecturer at a uni and had my first spell lecturing undergrads 3 weeks ago - OMG, they were talking loudly over each other during a plenary session. I stopped the plenary session let the class go quiet but they didnt even realise, so I was forced twice to tell them that talking over others isn't an acceptable behaviour in business. Not only that but they rock up late and today 3 sets of groups have complained that their fellow group members are not pulling their weight.

So it's not just you OP.

This younger generation are in for a big shock....

This.
It is all about the systems that management put in place to have pastoral staff 'on-call' to remove pupils from class, within 5 minutes of being called. Mostly the pupils should go to 'internal exclusion' for the rest of the day or longer, plus after-school detentions.
If the middle management don't do their job and the systems are not working, the school will be hell, regardless of catchment area or demographics.

OP: go to interviews for other jobs and ask about their system for removing pupils from class.

Change jobs....i retired early from an ok 6th form college a few years ago...none of the behaviour you mention went on....you could earn more money cleaning offices....it sounds like the school management have no ground rules in place...eating and phones were never allowed where i used to work....for £110 a day i wouldnt do supply work....no way....never....i have often assisted a friend with office cleaning....£17 an hour....easy....compared to teaching.

I've recently started college as a mature student and I'm shocked at the behaviour of the students that have not long left school.
Walking out of class 5 mins after lessons start to use the toilets.
Going home at lunchtime without informing the afternoon tutor that they won't be in their lesson.
Sitting on phones all the time during class.
Dropping swear words into conversations with the tutor.
Speaking between themselves while the tutor is giving a lesson.

Thing is most of these are actually nice kids, they did well in school and really want to progress to uni next year. They just don't seem to have a clue about basic manners. I feel like a dinosaur next to them even though I'm "only" in my 30's

This is why there has been the rise of zero-tolerance schools where taking off your blazer without permission is forbidden. My kids go to a school like this, and although I think at times it seems a bit harsh, bad behaviour in class is very rare and the teachers can teach.

It's bad in lots of places yes.
It's why I work for an online school- a lot of our pupils have joined us because of bullying etc.

Sorry just been reading all the replies now, they've been really helpful.
Prior to me they had another long-term supply for about 3 months. Before taking them on my own I assisted her classes as a TA in my final week and the behaviour was pretty awful for her, no better I would say.
None of the classes had seating plans either, I've put them in now but it's just constant protesting about why they can't sit next to X person, pleading to sit next to their friends instead. Some will just not sit in the seat as asked.
Phones and food are banned but this doesn't stop them. If you ask some to put it away, they will. Others will literally ignore you as if you're not there.
I covered a lesson today with a class I'd never seen before and people were walking in and out when they felt like it, refusing to take coats off, throwing things across the room.
The language is disgusting, many are of ethnic minorities and call each other the P or N word, one student shouted 'Allahu Akbar' today.
1/3 of classes are lovely, hardworking, silent when working, and respectful. I do feel sorry for these children having learning disrupted.
I think I will give it one last try with the other school, and if it's the same I'm not bothering again.
Plus it's long term supply, they could drop you from one day to the next.

There's an on call system but they don't always turn up. Atm the detention system is that teachers have to set detentions in their own lunch or after school, there's no detention rota or anything.

I only have current knowledge of the local comp in a largely rural area.
Bullying is rife, management is woeful, lessons are continually disrupted and there have been several major assaults on staff in the last few weeks.

There are some students in my lessons who are honestly quite intimidating and it makes me worry where they'll be in a few years time

Firstly, I don’t think this is a new thing. I went to a secondary comp in a fairly affluent area but it was rough as hell. Regular fights, sometimes in the classroom, stationary being thrown, one kid lobbed a chair across the room. General fucking around in class, rude chat back, lairy attitudes & aggression. That was in the 80’s.

Secondly, what methods of discipline are available to teachers nowadays? There’s literally nothing teachers can do to limit bad behaviour. Hate to say it but kids at secondary will only behave for you if they respect you, and fear you a little bit

Roughly 10 children per lesson turning up without a pen every single day.
Giving worksheets that are just ripped or turned into paper planes by some so I don't hand them out anymore.
It's a shame as yesterday I did an assessment with one class, a lot of them achieved full marks and everyone tried hard apart from 4/5 students who never work

@Tag40

Even more depressing was the conversation I had with my year 8 son that went along the lines of “no one would ever behave for you mum”

”Why do you think that son”

”they only behave for the proper teachers like Mr….. Mr….. oh and Mr….”.

A conversation was then had between me and my son but he’s only relaying what actually goes on within his state school….. depressing.

@Growingmyhairout

That is awful.

Teacher here YABU you get paid more than early career and mainscale teacher's per day suck it up and call the parents 🤬

I don't sadly, I get the equivalent of £21,450 a year, much lower than an ECT

Sounds like SLT aren’t doing a very good job at supporting staff or implementing a proper behaviour policy. All schools are not like this. Run for the hills to the new place.

@ZooMemories

Incorrect.

I teach primary but have many friends and colleagues at secondary schools and your experiences are not unusual. Staff I talk to are frustrated that behaviour policies can't be implemented properly and lack teeth because parents won't tolerate any criticism of their child and argue about any sanction or punishment. Once young people know there are no real consequences, you've lost. By the time the young people and their parents realise that they should have engaged, it's often too late. The days of them automatically showing respect to you because of your role and position are gone. Now parents tell staff you have to earn our respect.

Jesus! I went to an inner London secondary school in the mid 80’s to early 90’s. There was bullying, bad behaviour etc but some teachers didn’t take any crap and we all knew those teachers weren’t to be messed with! You arrived to their lessons on time, you handed in on your homework on time and you showed them respect in their lessons. And if you didn’t you were made to look about an inch tall and sent to the Headmasters office for a further telling off, detention and/or put on report and parents notified.

Do schools no longer operate like this?