Is behaviour this bad in all schools now?!

[Growingmyhairout]

I am a supply teacher who's in a long term role but don't think I can deal with it.
I'm in a non core subject which doesn't help, one that pupils find difficult and don't have to do a GCSE in.
I was covering a 2 week sickness in one boys school, but couldn't have done anymore as behaviour was awful.
I'm now at what's been called a very challenging school. However I've walked past some other lessons and all kids are silent pretty much.
I've been here for a few weeks now so the kids know I'm not there just for a day or anything, yet no improvements.
I've been suggested to ring parents but if I did I'd be making 45 calls an evening which there is just not the time to do, especially for £110 a day gross.
I do give detentions, warnings etc. But it doesn't make much difference.
Some kids will just get up and walk out of your lesson when they feel like it. Or kids who aren't even in your lesson will turn up and sit in the room.
Coats on, phones out, earphones in, eating. When I tell them not to, some kids will listen but some will literally just ignore you. Swinging on chairs, shouting across the room, fighting, swearing.
Each lesson I send a few out to other classrooms which helps to an extent.
The worst are cover lessons though, as I'm used for cover as well as my own classes. Cover is an absolute nightmare.
I record everything but don't know what difference it makes.
Throwing things across the room, putting make up on. Answering me back very rudely.
Just all talking loudly and ignoring me. I refuse to shout over them as I've already got a hoarse voice from raising it.
I email heads of year, sometimes they will come in if they're not busy.
Some lessons are alright, but there's an insane level of disrespect.
As I said I've been here a few weeks now, how long is it going to take?
I've got a TA in all lessons which I'm really grateful about, but they don't seem to respect her much either.
We had an ok class this morning once the worst were removed, but had an absolutely horrendous year 7 group. She said she'd never seen a school like it.
I've been offered long-term, part time cover in another school. I'm tempted to go, but I'm thinking what's the point?
It's just going to be the same everywhere isn't it? I'm not expecting kids to sit in absolute silence for 5 hours a day but the behaviour is unacceptable. I'll be trying to speak and many students will just carry on having their own conversation.
I also feel like I'd be letting down the school who've even given me a TA when most other teachers don't get one.
I feel like a failure as a teacher. I think I've been firm but fair, but I don't think I can do this. Is behaviour really this bad in all schools?

🙄

Years 7 and 8 seem particularly affected by the Covid absences. So many unable to sit still, organise themselves, stop talking, take responsibility for their own actions. Just unable to function in a classroom setting.

Also generally across all years, 7-11. A significant number of pupils have a definite lack of respect for staff and other pupils. A lack of curiosity about the world, and are disengaged in the process of education. They have no fear of consequences, apart from losing their lunch or break.

Unfortunately their behaviour negatively impacts the pupils that work hard and want to learn. We find it very hard to keep supply and short term contract stafff. The behaviour of some children literally hounds them out. I’m often ashamed to work there.

I've TA'd in quite a few schools snd yes they're mostly like this even with the permanent teachers. The worst one was ofsted rated 'good' but was hell on earth. Running on tables and physical fights in lessons completely ignored by teachers as they'd given up. I will never send my kids to secondary school in the UK.

Some schools were like this long before COVID. I worked at one and was very relieved when it closed permanently. I went to a place that was unrecognisable as another non selective school in the same area with largely the same demographics, slightly less deprivation, but not by much.

There has been a lot of work to get some years back into learning - year 9 are still the most challenging (as they always were), but these had two formative/transitional years disrupted in a way that older and younger didn't. And a hell of a lot of bereavements - so many grandparents, aunts, cousins, parents - plus some were stuck in abusive homes, nowhere to go or play, no activities, no gardens - they would always have been challenging, but the pandemic added to it.

The difference between them in year 7 and the newest cohort who had time back in primary is stark - even with a far lower income cohort, one with lower raw ability on testing, they're just so much more secure psychologically.

Go to another school. You'll see the difference where they've been better at handling the transition.

This sounds awful. My DC are at a very good school where I know behaviour is nothing like this, we live in a fairly rural affluent area so I suspect that makes a difference. I feel so sorry for teachers (and kids!) in schools like this.

Not being able to expel kids means an effective deterrent is not available. No child wants to move schools - especially the bad ones - leaving their gang members behind.

How long has the teacher you've been covering been away for and how many supply have they been through? I'm afraid it can be disastrous. It takes longer than a few weeks for kids to trust you're sticking around or actually care about them or their education unfortunately and in the meantime they drive people out who might have stuck around if they gave them a chance.

Behaviour is not like this in my classroom but I'd bet it is in some classrooms and particularly with supply at my school.

Personally I think day to day supply or permanent are the ways to go - longer cover placements are just all the ball ache and none of the rewards especially if you're only on 110 a day! The bliss of supply is the knowledge that come 3.30pm you are leaving and if you don't want to you never have to come back again.

Quit a long term gig because of the behaviour in Health and Social lesson.
Chair thrown at me. Pupil had gathered several glue sticks during the day and hurled them at a pupil with AN.
Was asked after I'd called for assistance,if it okay if the pupil who'd thrown the chair and sticks to remain in the classroom.
Affluent area.
It's all about SMT / SLT.

The fact you see them behaving well in other lessons and they fall silent when the HOY walks in suggests that this is how they are with supply and newcomers rather than established staff and in a way who can blame them? Sorry I know it's awful but not being able to recruit and retain decent staff is horrible for the kids as well as staff and the realities of who ends up in front of them is very hit and miss. I'm not suggesting you are not potentially a great teacher for them but you can understand why they come to assume supply won't be and they won't be learning anything and the teacher won't be able to control behaviour etc. Then even the good kids are dossing about in 'supply' lessons because they're used to it being meaningless or chaotic.

Day to day you can let it roll over you somewhat, surprise them by actually making a bit of effort and being better than the other supply they've had etc - longer placements I think it's a bit of a farce of pretending to be their teacher and someone who's part of the school but all parties know it's not the case really and what it really means is that their actual teacher or a replacement 'proper' as in permanent teacher is nowhere on the horizon.

I wonder if the attitude will filter into the workplace?

My school is like this yes and it's particularly bad for supply teachers. The students definitely rule the place.

This has nothing to do with "now". I was in secondary twenty years ago and it was absolute chaos, this is nothing new. I agree that unfortunately supply teachers always get the raw end of the deal, the students don't know you, don't want to get to know you, are bored with the subject, are failing anyway so what's the point? You're a transient teacher, so there are no real consequences to their shitty behaviour. I can understand their thinking, and it is a nightmare to "teach". My sympathies, not easy at all.

Cream will rise to the top, like it did with me and my class twenty odd years ago, and the others will either get left behind or end up retaking their subjects when they are in their 20s and they realise they can't get a job having not even met the basic level in English and Maths. You don't stand much of a chance with a non core subject. Is it languages? Are you responsible for the lesson plans or do you pick up where the old teacher left off? How is the staffing generally?

SLT are paid quite a bit to help teachers with this. What do they say about it? They are the management at school....

I work in a non teaching role in an 11-16 secondary school. Most kids are great and I try to focus on this. But and it's a big but, the number of children who aren't great, is definitely increasing.
Behaviour this term has been noticeably poor. I'm talking about refusal to work, to even get a pen out, refusal to stay in seats, leaving classrooms, running into other classrooms, wandering corridors, vandalism, (pulling toilets off walls...), Downright rudeness to staff, bullying and fights. We are in a semi rural area. Teachers are working so hard but from my viewpoint I see little support from the senior leadership team. There are protocols in place to call senior staff if there are incidents such as leaving a class or refusal to give up phone/put phone away. Teachers call for the senior leadership team and noone comes.
I don't know what the solution is.
I know I could never be a teacher given what I see on a daily basis and support the teaching staff as much as I can.

The school I work in isn't like this, although it's an outstanding secondary in a very middle class area. It sounds like SLT are completely ineffective? Do they implement their behaviour policy?

It's definitely not like this at my son's secondary or at my daughters. Both are single sex schools.
My son's school is super strict on behaviour, no chances basically. If a class rule is broken it's instant detention/ misbehaviour point/ time out of class.
My daughters isn't as strict but behaviour in the classroom is exemplary.
I do have friends who have experience of really bad behaviour at their schools one got hit trying to break up a fight between two boys, another says she doesn't feel safe leaving school on her own once it's dark so they always leave with a colleague.

I've seen even worse OP and massively feel your pain. I was in admin at a school for a while and always thanked my lucky stars I wasn't a teacher. I'd get out now and try the other school post. If it's as bad, look at other career options, but try the other post first. I can say it isn't you. It's the students.

Some schools are like this. I think some areas seem to have an endemic problem. I've taught in a few different schools and would say they vary considerably. Generally kids don't not tell their parents the half of it.
One individual child would behave very differently in different contexts. There are some who struggle wherever they are and some who'd behave well anywhere but about 50% in the middle can swing either way.
The fact that the curriculum is so dire doesn't help.

My teenage child's friends who are at state school say it can be like this. Those who want to learn struggle because of the class disruptions. Very little learning time in total.

I taught in comps in England for years and the behaviour all over was pretty bad. Better to go for private schools. I did 4 years in a private school and it wasn't perfect, but at least I could teach.

So many factors over the past twelve years have led to this. Tory austerity pushing more children into poverty, making their lives more challenging and chaotic. Tory austerity stripping away support for SEN and mental health. Tory austerity increasing class sizes and losing TAs.

Social media and phone addiction destroying children's attention spans and robbing them of curiosity and engagement.

Behaviour policies that are good (positive discipline) but implemented badly by SLT who see it as getting rid of consequences and blaming all behavior on teachers

The pandemic and home schooling - I can only imagine the effect of this as luckily I'm out of teaching now.

that doesn't reflect my DS's school at all and it's an al boys school.

You're experience sounds extreme and it's very disappointing if you're not getting proper support, but I'm involved in a behaviour forum for all our local secondaries and it seems that every school is finding Ks3 very challenging . They're all struggling after being out of normal school for so long.

It's several years since I did any supply, but even then it was clear that the standards of behaviour depended on the SLT. One really quite rough school had a splendid management team, and all the HoDs were on the case too - always a pleasure to teach there. Another couple of schools had senior teachers on roving patrol who responded very quickly (and effectively) to calls for assistance. On the other hand, one of the better-thought-of local establishments had a leadership team who stayed holed up in their offices, and that place was a hellhole for supply. Schools needed supply teachers, and they appreciate it when someone comes in and actually teaches a good lesson from the cover notes, and most supply teachers do.

So many schools are like this now. It’s horrendous. Private or Grammar School is the way to go.