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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Not sure whether to be a sahm or not

1000 replies

Flowerpicker1 · 06/11/2022 20:21

Had 2 under 2. My maternity leave is now coming to an end following the birth of my 2nd dc. Neither dc are in nursery. DH is on a good wage.

Have been given the option not to return to work if I don't want to. Dh can cover us. It would be part not full time anyway.3 days.

Not sure what to do. On one hand I'd love to be there for all of my dcs childhood but on the other I worry if I would cope. We don't have any family or support nearby.

If you work would you rather be a sahm and not put your children in nursery? Or have you done this and loved it/regretted it?

OP posts:
SoulTrayne · 08/11/2022 17:50

Topgub · 08/11/2022 17:44

@SoulTrayne

No, I haven't misquoted anyone

And yes, I tell people they're wrong and I'm right.

Kind of standard for discussing differing opinions?

Others have told me I'm wrong and they are right.

And even more have done the same without me involve at all!

No one has to agree with anyone. If you think thats the same as undermining rather than just disagreement then thats up to you.

Why would I have an agenda?!

If you think that a discussion is telling people that you're right and they're wrong, then you have the debating skills of a four year old.

You have undermined women on this thread.

You have taken the words of women on this thread and changed them to give a different meaning.

You have made women on this thread feel unable to post anymore.

Why would anyone have an agenda to undermine women under a fake veneer of equality?

Think hard.

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 17:51

We all have different personalities, different strengths and weaknesses, different amounts of particular hormones, and different careers with different hours and demands which thus fit together in different ways. I can see that creating a world order where the default position is the equal sharing of childcare, domestic work and outward-facing work could help limit abuses of power on a macro level, but due to our differences, this arrangement simply doesn’t work for everyone at the level of the individual family unit and some people really just find it inefficient and unsatisfying (whereas others, of course, find it ideal). To achieve the supposed ideal, in any event, massive changes would need to be made to the entire structure of our society and to the capitalist system, as it very much rewards single minded specialists with a taste for power, whether male or female, and does not reward happy multi-taskers to the same extent.

It is not automatically the case that to be a SAHP you must be unimaginative, boring, thick, lazy, somehow unable to cope with the world of paid work, or expecting someone else to support you while you do nothing of any real value or that could possibly count sufficiently to stop you being an inferior partner in a relationship. It is not automatically the case that to be a WOHP, you must be emotionally detached, selfish, self-centred, power hungry, callous, uncaring, bullying, a capitalist drudge, or of the opinion that caring and nurturing are the same thing as weakness and powerlessness. You wouldn’t always think so from reading some threads on Mumsnet, though! At least this thread has been like the curate’s egg, though - good in parts. It’s a shame it keeps descending into tit for tat.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 17:57

@SoulTrayne

Debating skills of a 4 yo but also able to change words to give them a different meaning? Thats quite the contrast

If people don't want to post or feel undermined, thats on them.

I dont have an agenda but you clearly do

Topgub · 08/11/2022 17:59

@Walkaround

To achieve the supposed ideal, in any event, massive changes would need to be made to the entire structure of our society and to the capitalist system,

That would be a good thing, wouldn't it?

I think so anyway. Capitalism certainly isn't doing anyone any favours

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 17:59

@Topgub - you do kind of give the impression that you do have an agenda which is to score points, though, and that you believe this to be the point of debating.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:01

@Walkaround

Oh right.

Yeah probably

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 18:02

Topgub · 08/11/2022 17:59

@Walkaround

To achieve the supposed ideal, in any event, massive changes would need to be made to the entire structure of our society and to the capitalist system,

That would be a good thing, wouldn't it?

I think so anyway. Capitalism certainly isn't doing anyone any favours

@Topgub - I think it’s what the world might just need at the moment, tbh, yes.

MiniTheMinx · 08/11/2022 18:03

Topgub · 08/11/2022 14:40

@glowtorch

It's OK to be a mum and have a job too.

Sorted

You have been posting on this thread for three WHOLE days without a break, I'm surprised you have time to do either child care or work!

And your tone is rude and wearing people down is not the same as putting forward a good argument.

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 18:04

Walkaround · 08/11/2022 18:02

@Topgub - I think it’s what the world might just need at the moment, tbh, yes.

Unfortunately, though, we need competitive, single minded specialists to set it up for us! 😂

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:04

@MiniTheMinx

Don't worry, I'm back to work tom.

mantramama · 08/11/2022 18:05

Topgub - but if you equate human value with 'having a job' then that's the essence of capitalism, isn't it?

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:08

@mantramama

No the essence of capitalism is private ownership of means of production.

I dont think anyone equates human value with having a job.

Oh, except maybe the men you know?

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:08

@Walkaround

Probably!

🤦‍♀️

Sophie89j · 08/11/2022 18:18

Being a SAHM is mentally and physically draining. I’d go back to work even if it’s just for your sanity.
My ex husband and his family pushed me into being a SAHM when we had our second, first was 2 nearly 3. Although you get to experience everything with the babies, I absolutely hated it as I had no freedom, no income of my own, literally no time to breathe.
Although going back to work means juggling childcare, chores and everything else that goes with it, you get something which is your own. Especially if it’s only PT, you won’t miss that much.

mantramama · 08/11/2022 18:19

Topgub - you repeatedly say "the SAHM role has no value to society."
From this, I would assume you mean that only paid roles have value to society.

Putting a financial value in people is the epitome of capitalism, surely?

But bizarrely, you also take great umbridge about anyone who, in your view, earns too much. Especially, if this means they may potentially afford a SAHP in the family!

So if not a capitalist, are you a communist?

Hoe much is too much?

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:21

@mantramama

Thats an odd assumption.

It just means that that particular role has no particular value to society for me.

It clearly has value to some individuals.

But its not adding anything to society.

That doesn't mean that I equate human value with being paid, thats nonsense

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:23

And jeeze, capitalism v socialism v communism is a whole new thread.

God only knows what level of abuse my views on that would bring out!

mantramama · 08/11/2022 18:31

Of course a SAHM has no value to you TopGub. You are an adult fgs!

But if you say being a SAHM has no value to SOCIETY (as you just did again) then how do you expect people to interpret that?

Ate children and families not a massive part of society?

if someone cares for an elderly relative (unpaid) does that also have no value to society?

Are you aware of what you're even saying?

DozyFox · 08/11/2022 18:38

I just knew when I read this thread title that I'd find the usual suspects here 🤣

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:39

@mantramama

Yes I'm aware of what I'm saying.

They can interpret as they wish.

Same as people can interpret you saying women are biologically more attuned parents as they wish.

Children and families are a massive part of society. I'm not sure what that has to do with being a sahm.

Caring for an elderly relative isn't comparable to being a sahm imo, the value to society their is monetary.

Sahms aren't saving society any money

MiniTheMinx · 08/11/2022 18:43

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:21

@mantramama

Thats an odd assumption.

It just means that that particular role has no particular value to society for me.

It clearly has value to some individuals.

But its not adding anything to society.

That doesn't mean that I equate human value with being paid, thats nonsense

Please go read some Della Costa or Fwdericci.....both excellent feminist writers.

Unpaid labour in the home raising children and domestic work 'reproduces labour power' both literally tomorrow morning, and future labour power in the form of future generations of workers.

You know....when you say 'role model' its close to saying 'ideology' the church, the school, the family (under capitalism) is the site which reiterates and reinforces capitalist ideology.

You don't seem to know your arse from your elbow! out of interest what job do you do? does it pay the same as your DH? if so, maybe you both have to work for lower wages? is that your motivation here? because you seem angry.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:48

@MiniTheMinx

People who work do unpaid labour and raise kids too

I didnt say role model? I dont think I did anyway. Its been 3 days...

No, we don't both work for low wages and no, I'm not angry

But I guess as a feminist I suppose I should at least pretend to be?

MiniTheMinx · 08/11/2022 18:53

More than that Tobgob I'd like to explore this idea you have that SAHM facilitate men's careers and earnings. Why do you think that?

Is it because it quite literally does! because it reproduces labour power......workers need food, warmth, a shelter, clean clothes and rest. So yes you are correct.

That is why unpaid work raising children and domestic work is o value in a capitalist society.

What it isn't is easily recognised as such because its unpaid. And since our sisters returned to work, we now provide x 2 in terms of value created and surplus value to the capitalist for the overall cost of one worker.....that's why two wages are now required to reproduce labour ie.....keep one family.

mantramama · 08/11/2022 18:56

"Sahms aren't saving society any money"

So there you are - you just said it. You equate 'value' to money (or saving money).

If I am caring for an elderly relative, I might save social services a few £ (that is, if I'm not paying for private care). If my kids are not in state nurseries and using their free hours / taking up places it's the same thing.

By your logic, parents who have DC in private schools are 'saving society money.' How weird is that?

But obviously "value to society" is not only about saving the govt money! There is another type of value in an elderly person having someone they know and have a relationship with caring for them, rather than an unknown person. One day, you might even discover this unpaid 'value' for yourself Topgub - as an elderly member of society. There is also (in most cases) value to babies in having a mum (or dad) look after them, rather than a paid person. Babies ARE society. Families are the very fabric of society. I can't even believe I'm having this discussion. It's basic.

Topgub · 08/11/2022 18:58

@MiniTheMinx

Since our sisters returned to work?

Are you a communist?

Our sisters have always worked. No return about it.

Blaming women for wanting to work causing the flaws of capitalism doesn't sound very feminist.

If you think a sahm has value because they further mens careers, thats fine. I dont

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