Not sure whether to be a sahm or not

[Flowerpicker1]

Had 2 under 2. My maternity leave is now coming to an end following the birth of my 2nd dc. Neither dc are in nursery. DH is on a good wage.

Have been given the option not to return to work if I don't want to. Dh can cover us. It would be part not full time anyway.3 days.

Not sure what to do. On one hand I'd love to be there for all of my dcs childhood but on the other I worry if I would cope. We don't have any family or support nearby.

If you work would you rather be a sahm and not put your children in nursery? Or have you done this and loved it/regretted it?

@glowtorch

It's OK to be a mum and have a job too.

Sorted

Thanks for your posts. I'm sorry you're leaving the thread - there are so few non-aggressive voices on it and too many arseholes, frankly.

I'm a parent, I work, and my career is bloody hard work, but I do like it. I'm good at it, and have the trappings. Would I prefer to be at home with my kids? Probably. Some days definitely. It's a very tough decision and far more nuanced than most here give credit for.

It would be so great to debate this properly, with thoughtful, kind, listening, compassionate women on both sides. I could really, really do with that right now. I clicked in hope, but no fucking chance here, once again!

Women do tend to carry more of the mental load but we're not biologically programmed to do so, and this is a clear example of societal expectations around sex-based roles and childcare because there is NO biological reason for this to happen and guess what? Men are just as capable of carrying the mental load so if they aren't and you think they should, then challenge it!!

For example, we have just had an email form school saying DS will need to wear waterproofs and wellies tomorrow. We discovered this weekend that his wellies are too small. Both me and DH get the email and DH has just text me to say he'll pick some new ones up on his way home from work. It's not hard is it??

FridaBarlow, my apologies for my own part in this nonsense.

I'm sorry but this is bullshit. If a dad actually spends time with his baby he will be just as 'tuned in' to their needs. They will produce oxytocin which supports this 'tuning in' or bond.

I think we just need to agree to disagree

I think that's wise.

Agree. Fatherhood lowers testosterone levels as well.

The question is what opportunities do fathers get to contribute to childcare. If they are too busy feathering the nest, they won't get to do any nesting as they cannot be in two places at once. Which perpetuates the cycle.

Exactly blue
If you're the one doing the vast majority of childcare then of course you are going to be more tuned in to your children. It doesn't have to be that way. If both parents are actively caring for the children then that will be different.

Obviously, you do what works for your family but to suggest that men can't be as in tune to their children as women isn't correct.

How do single dads manage?

@FridaBarlow

Calling people arseholes seems pretty aggressive.

I just dont get this idea that women have to always be kind and supportive. Or that disagreeing or having a strong opinion is aggressive.

But tbh I don't see the point in a supportive debate

If you're supportive you're not debating. You're agreeing.
I dont see the point in agreeing to disagree ether

Never in my entire life have I met a man who is more attuned to his kids than his wife. I can't think of a single case. I am 49 years old and have lived in 4 countries.

It's up to you in the end what you decide to do, neither option is wrong!

For me, I wouldn't cope with being a SAHM to be honest. I love my toddler (and will love new baby on the way I'm sure!) and would love to be the kind of mum who could stay home and care for the kids all the time, but I'm just not. I love going to work and being able to think about / focus on something other than kids and housework. It also makes me appreciate the time I get with my son at the weekends, where I'm able to focus on spending time with him more and actually enjoy it. This might sound super selfish to some of you, but I'm just being honest about who I am and what I can deal with. By the end of my 10 months of maternity leave, I couldn't WAIT to get back to work.

For some mums, they love being at home with their kids and caring for them and raising them. If it's what you want to do and you are able to both financially and mentally, go for it!!

Sometimes I feel my son isn't being raised the exact way I would like him to because he spends so much of his time at nursery, and this is probably the only thing I regret about putting him in nursery. I do however know that because of who I am, I would never do half the stuff he gets up to at nursery while at home. He is exposed to lots of activities, socialising, and learning new things all the time.

It's a tough decision I know, but give it a go whichever way you decide, and if you aren't happy then you can always change your mind!

Who is saying more attuned? Why does it need to be so binary?

I know lots of dads who are equally attuned and bonded to their children as their wives/girlfriends are. It might manifest itself differently because were all individuals but there is an equal bond there.

There is a sharing of mental load (in our case we sat down and agreed who was responsible for what as it helps to know that I don't need to worry about DSs football and DH doesn't need to worry about his martial arts) This picture you painted of men merrily trotting off to work without a thought for their children's wellbeing just doesn't ring true in my experience... although I am sure there are men like that.

No ones saying because you're a woman you have to be kind and supportive, but your dismissive attitude to literally anyone elses points/arguments, whilst simultaneously declaring YOUR OWN opinion as fact is making you come across like an argumentative arsehole.

And don't pretend to care about 'debate' either when you've stated you couldn't care less what others have to say on this matter.

What do you think happens in same sex couples?

Ok, well I've never met a man who is 'as attuned.' Possibly one or two in literally hundreds, but that's it.

Quote where I've claimed my opinion is FACT

Of course I think my opinions are right.

So does everyone else.

I am argumentative. I dont think that makes me an arsehole but you're entitled to your opinion.

Not caring what others say doesn't mean I don't enjoy the debate.

Have you named changed for a reason or did you just decide to jump in at this late stage to have a go?

How many of the hundreds shared care equally?

Doesn't mean they don't exist!! In my social circle there are a couple of dads who don't really get involved in the day to day caring of their children and they aren't viewed very favourably by the group. And it's not just the women who criticise them.

Men and women are quite different (at a group level), I think, in terms of how they focus.

How they tend to socialise is an example of this. When DH meets his friends, it's invariably around an 'activity.' They wouldn't just meet for a coffee, for instance. When they do talk, it's mainly about achievements at work or what they are doing in their whatever sports - "I am planning to climb this mountain..., I'm up for it too... count me in .... rah rah rah." They always try to put a positive spin on themselves and tend to use work to bolster their self-identity / esteem. This is how it seems to me.

When I meet with friends, we tend to talk about our kids and how they're doing at school, uni etc. Even when most of us were working, the work itself was rarely the focus of conversations and if it was, it would more likely be one of us giving an account or asking for advice about an interpersonal issue at work, or something like that. It was never, "I have hit this target and made this money and achieved this and now I will be achieving blah blah blah ..," And I do know some highly successful women, inc a friend I was out with the other night who must earn over £500k or something in that region.

That's my experience anyway.

For those who think women should give up their careers, what do you tell your daughter's? What's the point of them doing anything beyond a GCSE to calculate the weekly shop?

Topgub - my personal observation is that even where couples both work, the mum still tends to take on more of they mental load.

@mantramama

No wonder you think as you do

It's like sexism 101.

the mum still tends to take on more of they mental load.

Yes this true. But doesn't answer my questions

Your experience but not the experience of others.

This certainly doesn't ring true to me. Not all men are like the ones you know.

DH will meet friends (male and female) for a coffee, lunch or a drink and their conversation is varied but i know it will often focus on DS, me, family, holidays and work as well as sport and whatever else he has in common with that person.
The conversations I have with friends (again, both male and female) will be very similar. We talk about kids but will definitely talk about other topics such as work. I'm interested in my friends' jobs and enjoy hearing about their successes and their day to day lives. Tbh, if i have a problem at work i will probably talk to DH about it rather than friends.

You clearly have a very limited social circle if all of that is true and you don’t know a single man as attuned to their own children as the mother.
Men don’t just meet for coffee? Like what are you talking about?
My husband meets his friends for coffee all the time! My coworkers go out for coffee on their lunch break with other men regularly.
They talk about their kids, what’s going on in their lives, how they feel about their relationship, things they have coming up that they look forward to.

I have to say I just do not live in the same world as you. You obviously only surround yourself with people who live a very old fashioned gendered life.