For asking my Ukrainian guest to get a job so they can move out?

[Erith1985]

Wondering if anyone else is going through the same thing.

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian guest at my house for six months. I’m appalled by the war and I have a big spare room with its own bathroom and so although I normally live alone by choice, I offered up my room. The first few months were ok, they are clean and tidy and were out and about a fair amount so we didn’t get in each other’s way. We didn’t discuss length of stay when they first arrived because I didn’t want them to feel unwelcome. I figured I would bring it up when they got a job.

That hasn’t happened. They say they have been sending off their CV and getting some interviews, but they haven’t secured anything. It seems they have only been looking at jobs in their previous sector, and that they have pretty high salary expectations since they’re complaining about the 45% tax rate. In the meantime, they’ve now settled into a routine that means they are at home nearly all the time - coming down to cook three times a day and only seeming to leave the house to go to the gym or the job centre, and spend most of the time in between instagramming. It feels like the heating and / or the oven is constantly on and they aren’t very communicative so when we’re in the shared space at the same time it feels awkward.

We finally had the conversation a month or so ago to say that I would like my hosting to end at the end of November, which they accepted on the basis that they were sure they would have secured one of the jobs they were going for by then, but there’s no sign of that being the case. When I ventured that they might need to look at work that wasn’t their first choice sector, they looked at me like I was mad and said that they’d rather start her own business (!) They’ve also mentioned several times how expensive flats in our area are and how they needs the big salary they want to be able to afford it.

I’m really just at a loss for how to handle this situation - I obviously won’t be turfing them out on the streets but how do I make them see that they might have to accept work that is not their ideal and work towards it? And / or rent a room that is outside of London to be able to afford it? They have great language skills, and there’s no reason they couldn’t find work other than they aren’t willing to consider something which isn’t their “dream job” and furthering their career; I totally get wanting that, but not at the expense of being able to support yourself. I’m worried that I am now just stuck hosting as long as they want me to, and the Council have been no help (basically got a letter saying “no other hosts available and we hope you’ll help them as long as they need you”.)

Am I being unreasonable for wanting them to work harder at getting a job (any job) so that I can have my house back?

I feel I should update.
My parent’s lodger got a job shortly after I posted and also went to college. Her son has now finished school and moved back but she’s moved out into her own place. She was lovely and I’m glad I got to meet her.
My parents have another joining them soon.

She's just completely self absorbed. If you can put up with it for six months, hats off to you. After that in your shoes I'd be definitely asking her to move on.

my ukrainian lady has asked to come back to the uk! the council have said she has to find her own host or accommodation if she wants to.

Do any hosts have any advice about whether I should invite my guest to my family christmas at my aunt's house? I'm at a loss of what to do. There will be lots of people there so I don't think it would be too bad, it's more just that I resent having to invite her when she's made so little effort with me. I guess that no matter what choice I make I'll feel bad in some way (guilty if I don't invite her, annoyed if I do invite her). So far she hasn't even mentioned Christmas, so I'm not even sure whether she wants to celebrate it (with me). Any advice would be welcome.

I had a lodger once who was meant to be away at Christmas but then wasn’t. I find family christmases quite stressful without adding a stranger into the mix and so I left her to her own devices while we visiting family on Christmas Day. It was the right thing to do but in retrospect I did feel giuilty and so what I would do in that situation again is mark Christmas another special way with say a lodger eg having an additional special meal with her separate to family stuff. I don’t know if Ukrainians observe orthodox Christmas still and if that is on a different date but if so maybe that would work.

@sasha94
Im not a host. You’ve committed to doing a wonderful thing to someone, who isn’t appreciative and should be trying to stand on her own 2 feet. I’m too unwell to commit to having someone else to look after in my own home btw.

My take is that she’s made no effort with you. She courted you with promises, future faked you that she wanted to integrate, to get a job. If this were a romantic relationship, MN would be telling you to ltb.

Therefore, it is a resounding no from me.

What are the plans when the 6 months is up?

You may find that your guest has Ukrainian Christmas celebrations to go to anyway. They had loads of stuff like this organised in our area. I used to be phoned up by the councils Ukrainian support worker and ordered to drive my guests to them, drop them off then come back and pick them up.

That last post was meant for @ssasha94

@sasha94 Another issue is that since she’s moved in with me she’s never really taken an interest in getting to know me. I genuinely don’t think she’s asked me a single question about my work, hobbies, family or friends etc… (she rarely even responds to my “how are you?” with a “how are you?” back). I do my best to chat with her and make her feel comfortable, but it’s got to the point where I’m tired of making an effort without it being reciprocated.

I think this is a cultural difference, and you should try not to take it personally (I know it's difficult).

The family we hosted could be like that and I think it is seen as being nosy if you ask someone too many questions. But they are quite good at volunteering information about themselves. So I started to do this too, (e.g. I had a terrible day at work today) and it did get a bit of a response.

Our guests have returned to Kyiv now, but we are still in contact on What's App. We get a lot of updates on how the kids are doing etc, and also messages of gratitude, and passing on of regards & good wishes, but never "How are you and how is your family?" !!

To be fair if you were a solicitor in St Albans and the shoe were on the other foot and you were living in Ukraine to get away from some terrible war here, would you be willing to go get a job sweeping the streets? I don’t think the average British middle class would

Why not beggar's can't be choosers and all that. My old boss a Bank Manager used to occasionally sweep out the banking hall including pig shit or cow shit depending on which particular farmer had left it.

Many of these Ukrainians are economic migrants. I hosted three together, a mother and son and the mother’s cousin. The mother was an excellent guest, wanted to work immediately, cleaned her part of the house. She couldn’t speak English but since coming to UK has worked very hard on her English and now holds a basic conversation. She has a job cleaning 10 hours a week, she is also cleaning on the side . She and her son moved into her own accommodation after a year. Her husband recently joined her. We are still in touch. The cousin who was younger came for an adventure I am sure. She was on universal credit and went to college do English. She eventually got a job 10 hours a week but stayed on benefits. Her English was good but she had no intention of getting more work. She stayed with us 15 months but then wanted to go home as she missed her parents and friends. She messages me often, wanting to come back but we are used to having our home again so not sure. Many of these Ukrainians live frugally saving thousands to take home to Ukraine to their families. Ukraine’s economy is very bad. The mother saved enough money to buy her husband out of conscription which cost about five thousand . He is now here on benefits. He is working spasmodically and they are sending money back to Ukraine. They have free NHS, NHS dentist, big reduction in council tax and eat little so they can save. Where they come from in Ukraine is miles and miles from the East. They have been back and forwards to Ukraine since they came, taking money home. They have an income between them of over 19000, from the cleaning job of ten hours and universal credit and pay no tax, probably the equivalent of someone working full time, earning 25000. I like these people but understand they are not in danger but are economic migrants.

Just to add to this they all went home for Christmas for a month so didn’t have the problem of what to do with them. I think we’d have taken them where we went as we got on with them.

How can they be going home for a month and then claiming to be fleeing war? What a joke.

Yep my friend had this too , her” guests “went back home quite a few times including one to fix her teeth and another to get new boobs . All while claiming to be too traumatised to work and getting UC and pip . It is indeed a joke

In their defence (we have hosted a lovely mum and her little girl for 18 months and now just taken a new guest, a very traumatised lady from Kiev) - they do feel the need to go back every now and again.

It is always a difficult - but VERY IMPORTANT trip to make. They have families still there and, yes, they do take the opportunity to get their teeth looked at, buy antibiotics or whatever. Family still in Ukraine are very important to them. Regardless of what they do when they get there, which we might see as trivial/unimportant, they are still risking their lives and returning to a war zone. Be gentle with them. Their culture is different to ours. They still have a need to continue to live their lives, as we would all wish to do if the situation were reversed (God help us 😳😥).

Yes it is a long journey to go home for them. They take a flight from UK to Poland then either take a train or bus to their home. My guests are 140 miles from Poland. It is dangerous in that they take home hundreds of pounds each time, my guest had it tucked in her bra. I think since they came the mother has been home six or seven times, each time staying for at least two weeks, summer and Christmas for a month. Yes they miss their home and family but the fact they go home so often surely means they think it is safe. Remember it is our taxes that are supporting them and many of them don’t work but save their benefits to take home. This is not for what the homes for Ukraine plan was designed. My guest’s objective was to work and save so she could buy her husband out of the army which she did. It was a total surprise when he arrived in UK. I wonder why we are giving financial support to Ukraine when many of their men won’t fight for their country. I understand why the men want to get out but if they won’t fight for their country why are we giving them money for arms.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there! An economic migrant is exactly how my Ukrainian sees herself too. She’s been in the UK for almost 6 months and refuses to work because she deems everything to be beneath her (the only job that’s acceptable to her is in a very specific field of IT). I have no problem with people not working when they have valid reasons for not doing so (I have family members in this position, so I’m not one to judge) but my Ukrainian has explicitly said that coffee shop jobs / waitressing etc. are beneath her, and that’s why she won’t do them. The people at the job centre don’t even seem to be putting any pressure on her to find work, It’s almost as if the rules about finding work don’t apply to Ukrainian refugees.
In all honesty I think more needs to be done to stop people taking advantage of the scheme. When I decided to host I wanted to help someone find their feet and gain some independence in the UK, but I actually feel like the opposite is true and my guest is becoming less and less willing to stand on her own two feet and more and more dependent on myself and UC (I think this isn’t helped by the fact that the scheme has now been extended to three years…).
For me it’s not even about the quantity of money she’s receiving, as the amount spent on refugees in the UK is relatively small, it’s more just about the sense of entitlement she has and her unwillingness to give something back when she has been treated very well compared to many other refugees and asylum seekers. I find it all very disheartening, to be honest and it’s left me feeling a little bitter, especially when so many hard-working people in the UK are struggling so much with the cost of living and don’t get to pick and choose what work they do (myself included).
Do you still hear from ‘your’ Ukraininan now that she’s moved on? And do you know if she got a job eventually?

“My Ukrainian”? 🤔😬 Obviously it’s brilliant you took in a refugee and this doesn’t diminish that 🙏 but that’s a strange phrase!

Yeah, it is a strange phrase and isn't actually meant to signify that I "own" my Ukrainian. It was just the first phrase that came to mind. I guess "Ukraininan guest" would be a better way to describe it. :)

Yes I see ‘my’ Ukrainians on a weekly basis. They come to us for coffee or we go to their home. In the beginning I had to take them everywhere, job centre, biometrics, I was one of the first to have guests. Having 3 staying with us, after we had lived just the two of us for years, was a challenge for all of us. I guess we use the term ‘ my’ and ‘your’ is because there are several of us near each other so it’s an easy way of distinguishing. I like my previous guests very much. To be fair to the husband, he did not want to accept universal credit and is trying very hard to find work. His difficulty is he doesn’t speak English well nor does he drive. He has found odd jobs here and there and declares to job centre. He is very grateful to be here as is the mother. They are supporting family in Ukraine. She has taken an online job in Ukraine, presumably which helps to support their family as money is paid in local currency. It pays £120 a month, the average salary there, is £200 a month. The cost of living is far cheaper there. They have subsidised heating over there ,they heat their homes to 25 degrees! When they first came in April 2021, our energy prices were rocketing and although we did heat our home, it was obviously much colder than they were used to. We did have £350 a month to have them stay, which was a great help in paying extra energy bills, food, petrol for taking them to appointments and taking them around the country. The young girl who went back to Ukraine because she was homesick, now is asking if I will take her back. What will I do? She says she will find a job and somewhere to live if. I just take her for a couple of months. After an initial period of getting used to each other, we got on ok but do I want her back? I would never forgive myself if something happened to her, even though the chance is remote, given where she lives. It was not an easy decision for them to leave their home. I doubt the husband would find it easy now to return as he left because he didn’t want to fight. I have mixed feelings about the scheme but not sorry I took part. Having spoken to many hosts, there were mixed experiences but on the whole, mine were positive.

Just add, the young girl who stayed, seemed to think that the money we were given, was to feed her and keep her and run after her. We had a few arguments but in the end I told her, that regardless of how many Ukrainian guests we had, it was still £350 and if we wanted to do bed and breakfast we could make £100 a week at least per person. I expected her to keep her room clean and tidy and to cook for herself, although she did eat with us most of the time. In the end she apologised and after that it was ok, I think, regardless of nationality, she was indulged at home so thought we would do the same. I think she ‘grew up’ while she stayed with us and she regarded us as grandparents and we do keep in touch. Do I want her back? Not sure.

With regard the £350. I gave mine to my teenage kids, after all, they had to share their home as well. The Ukrainian support worker at the council (also Ukrainian) told me the £350 was so I could feed and drive around my guests. She used to phone me up and order me to take my guests places, (Ukrainian day celebrations etc) drop them off, then pick them up. Accordingly to her, this was what I was being paid for.

Stotty, I think you have done your bit with this girl and it would probably not be the right thing to let her come back.

The £350 was only ever intended as a “thank you” payment from the Government, as I understand things.