For asking my Ukrainian guest to get a job so they can move out?

[Erith1985]

Wondering if anyone else is going through the same thing.

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian guest at my house for six months. I’m appalled by the war and I have a big spare room with its own bathroom and so although I normally live alone by choice, I offered up my room. The first few months were ok, they are clean and tidy and were out and about a fair amount so we didn’t get in each other’s way. We didn’t discuss length of stay when they first arrived because I didn’t want them to feel unwelcome. I figured I would bring it up when they got a job.

That hasn’t happened. They say they have been sending off their CV and getting some interviews, but they haven’t secured anything. It seems they have only been looking at jobs in their previous sector, and that they have pretty high salary expectations since they’re complaining about the 45% tax rate. In the meantime, they’ve now settled into a routine that means they are at home nearly all the time - coming down to cook three times a day and only seeming to leave the house to go to the gym or the job centre, and spend most of the time in between instagramming. It feels like the heating and / or the oven is constantly on and they aren’t very communicative so when we’re in the shared space at the same time it feels awkward.

We finally had the conversation a month or so ago to say that I would like my hosting to end at the end of November, which they accepted on the basis that they were sure they would have secured one of the jobs they were going for by then, but there’s no sign of that being the case. When I ventured that they might need to look at work that wasn’t their first choice sector, they looked at me like I was mad and said that they’d rather start her own business (!) They’ve also mentioned several times how expensive flats in our area are and how they needs the big salary they want to be able to afford it.

I’m really just at a loss for how to handle this situation - I obviously won’t be turfing them out on the streets but how do I make them see that they might have to accept work that is not their ideal and work towards it? And / or rent a room that is outside of London to be able to afford it? They have great language skills, and there’s no reason they couldn’t find work other than they aren’t willing to consider something which isn’t their “dream job” and furthering their career; I totally get wanting that, but not at the expense of being able to support yourself. I’m worried that I am now just stuck hosting as long as they want me to, and the Council have been no help (basically got a letter saying “no other hosts available and we hope you’ll help them as long as they need you”.)

Am I being unreasonable for wanting them to work harder at getting a job (any job) so that I can have my house back?

I feel for you, I'm a host with a guest who actually refuses to get a job and spends much of the day talking loudly on the phone or going to Ukrainian social events. Difference is, I was very clear, and honest, even before they arrived, about what life was like in the UK and what sort of jobs they could realistically be able to get. These sort of jobs (factory, supermarket, cafe, etc) aren't for Ukrainian people now apparently (seems certain posters agree though), they're for other immigrants who aren't educated according to her. She calls people in Ukraine who do these jobs 'country people' and says these sort of people will never leave Ukraine.

I was also clear about duration, or well, I said they could stay six months, assuming no disasters, and then well see what we think about longer. My advice to her before she came was to get a job as fast as she could so she could save as much money as possible to pay a deposit somewhere. So far, she's saved nothing and is constantly buy crap, she has sent a fair bit to Ukraine as well. Also, with regard money, I would point out that if on universal credit, they would have also got the governments £700 cost of living payment while hosts, who actually pay the bills, got nothing.

@Erith1985 I'm not so sure about some of the people on this thread, but you come across as dignified, thoughtful and kind. Your guest has been lucky to have had you as their host, and you are now being very reasonable to ask them to move on, and to notify the Council that you have done so.

She is leaving the UK in December. She still has no plan or motivation (her own admission). I get that trauma can leave people feeling very, very indecisive about their future and they'll engage in very fixed routines as a coping mechanism. But she had so many freebies given to her and she didn't do anything or go anywhere. She's done nothing. She must think the UK is all villages and Sainsbury's because that's all she's seen. It is both heartbreaking and frustrating.
As a trauma survivor I know that nobody really cares about what happened to you. People are only interested in what you can do now. You can't live forever in a dressing gown, unless you want to be wearing that dressing gown on a street somewhere.
Unsurprisingly this lady doesn't want an alternative host because she knows they'll expect her to switch up.
So, lesson learnt on this one but I keep going with an open heart because I take my hat off to ANY refugee who wants to get on and live a life they can be proud of.

Also, op, I don't know about what your guest hears, but from what I can gather, theres a lot of misinformation going round within the Ukrainian community. Some seem to think that if you get a job, all council support ends and so if you then fall out with hosts and are asked to leave, if you have a job you're completely on your own but if you don't, the council will house you. I know I'm explained to my guest that this isn't true (she doesn't believe me though, or acts like she doesn't). She also thinks she can't move out of our district council area for the same reason.

The original scheme was up to six months to get settled into work and find their own accommodation. That is up to them to sort out. Not you. Given them their notice. One month. That way you know you have your house back for Christmas. Honestly, a lot of the Ukrainians around us have gone back to Ukraine. It is a big country. A lot of it is safe. They were professionals who wanted to return to their careers and they could never have got equivalent jobs here without re-qualifying. One family went back in the summer so their kids could take their equivalent of GCSEs. They have found a job and a house to rent in a nice part of Western Ukraine. She is back in work. While they were very grateful that we all welcomed them into our community, there is nowhere like home. So there is that option too.

I don’t understand why the older guests get the winter fuel allowance when they live rent and bill free and the host covers all their bills.

@Heatherland77 I had an autistic uncle who lodged in the old fashioned sense of full board and lodgings in a landlady's house. He was originally one of several, but was the last one to leave when he was very elderly and needed more care. The reason why I mention this is that the standard lodger's contract required him to be out of the house between 10am and 4pm every day except Sundays. She provided him with a packed lunch, but he was not allowed home until teatime. It worked very well, even after he retired as he would go to museums on rainy days or the seaside on sunny days. Anyone can sit in a coffee shop for a couple of hours. I think you need to be a little more firm.

I've heard the same about disinformation. Its rife and not helped by a general mistrust of authority either. Lots of guests seem to mistrust the information hosts give too, which isn't helped because there is no consistency between hosting arrangements.

I've also heard of guests not liking what they are told by hosts, so deliberately ignore it even if its something they've been asked specifically not to do. Cos they think they will get away with it and host won't challenge them over it.

Then there are guests who are just bloody minded. One case I know of involved someone who had a monthly non contract phone set up and paid for by the host for a few months, with the idea that the guest would then take it on when their payments started to come through because it was the cheapest available. When it came to transfer it over, they were given full instructions on how to do this (in Ukrainian). However the guest wouldn't do this and instead took it upon themselves to buy extortionately priced top up cards, because they knew better. The host was frustrated to say the list because they spent ages researching and finding the cheapest option for their guest to put them in the best position possible.

Its no surprise that hosts get frustated by it, if it happens continually and the advice they give (which has taken considerably time to find out about) is repeatedly ignored. It can feel like a slap in the face and as if the guest mistrusts them / disrespects them.

Again we see this point about hosts wanting guests to be 'permenantly grateful' but it could well be stuff like this instead. It can feel to the host like they are almost in a permenant battle with their guest.

This is absolutely not true. There are drone strikes there, as in other big cities, and the Russians are targeting essential infrastructure, which means millions of people will be facing winter without power, heat or water.

This thread is very mean spirited.

You may wish to actually read it. All of it.

@Genevieva

"the standard lodger's contract required him to be out of the house between 10am and 4pm every day except Sundays. She provided him with a packed lunch, but he was not allowed home until teatime. It worked very well, even after he retired as he would go to museums on rainy days or the seaside on sunny days. Anyone can sit in a coffee shop for a couple of hours"

That sounds like such a lonely and miserable existence.

It does sound a bit sad, doesn’t it? A not ‘taking advantage’ too, taking the money of a disabled man for rent/lodgings but forcing him out every day for a large portion of the day to he point he had to wander museums. That’s ok every once in a while, but nobody who pays rent should have to be sitting on the beach/walking a museum daily because they aren’t allowed in their home.

@containsnuts - I was going to say similar to what @Genevieva @Kanaloa says. My nana used to take in lodgers as she had 2 big terraced houses and lived on the ground and first floors of both of them. Even when she’d finished paying her mortgage and didn’t need the money she said she couldn’t turf them out as a lot were old and some may have had difficulties which we’d recognise now as possibly Asperger’s syndrome or were WW1 or WW2 ex soldiers. She’d never have forced them out all day. They were very kind old men and one was very friendly to me and my mum and gave me a very pretty bracelet I kept for years. Still have it. Lots of them lost touch with their families or would’ve ended up on the streets otherwise.

@GonnaGetGoingReturns That is very good of her. In fairness, he was never unhappy with the arrangement. He probably would have continued the routine even if it wasn't required anymore. He loved his museum visits and was quite well known in the area. He used to stay with us whenever she went on holiday because he wasn't capable of living independently (ie he could get to work / use public transport etc, but he couldn't cook or wash his clothes). We used to have fun going on outings with him, but he was hard work for my mother. It was very much like having another child in the house. We all expected his landlady to retire and chuck him out, but she never did, bless her. Anyway, the only reason I brought it up is that lodgers have fewer rights than renters.

I don't know why you're questioning my post - the hotels are the most expensive in the area. I should know, I live there!

I'm not 'stoking tensions,' just stating facts!
I think posters are misunderstanding. I assumed there was concern for non Ukrainian refugees, but in our area they are well looked after.

I'm not sure that is totally fair.

There were a heck of a lot of people, not in government, who were saying that there needed to be places provided for all, that lack of housing etc was not to the point, and good citizens would show how they could help by opening their homes. The government then organized what seemed to be a popular idea.

They should have anticipated potential problems, and maybe didn't because it was an easy cheap scheme, but I don't think it was all on them.

My local council has now decided to buy houses for Ukrainian refugees to stay in. Which seems nuts!

Tulip, yes but...the issue is that whereas many British people are in unsuitable or inadequate housing, many Ukrainians are about to find themselves actually homeless or in emergency accommodation. I know of one family that has been told they will be sent to a hostel but the teenage boy (16) will need to go to a hostel for adult males separate to his mother and younger sisters. It's not ok to prioritise them but the need is different and we are where we are. I don't know what the answer is but I reckon that if the whole situation had been handled better (comms, support, consistency and clear messaging to Ukrainians on arrival around work, housing and benefits) you'd have more hosts willing to continue at least to the twelve month mark at this point. As it is, I think councils fear a deluge of actual homelessness in the next couple of months and are in panic mode as a result.

Logically i can see that ,but there are many british families living in B&B,s etc i cant imagine it going down to well with them ,8 have a housing association house so its no skin of my nose ,but i can see a scheme like that might cause local issues.

Yep i remember the threads people were falling over themsrlves to offer spare rooms etc ,getting their neighbours together to organise ,childrens toys ,clothes etc ,and berating others who didnt do the same

It would be interesting to know which Ukranians were able to leave when the war started. From what I am reading here it sounds as though the majority of Ukranians who are being hosted here are educated people with high job aspirations, and it might have been that only these people with a bit of money behind them and the right contacts were able to escape.

The people who might be willing to take on the jobs that are vacant n the UK (waitressing, factory etc.) might perhaps have been unable to get out.

I can understand that a scheme had to be thrown together at speed, but it may be time to start refining it. A scheme that means that refugees who reach the end of their 6 months have no housing options open to them (and the hosts feel obliged to continue the arrangement) is clearly lacking - but with the UK housing problem it is not surprising.

Well done OP for opening your home - and do not feel bad that you are now finding it so problematical - that is not your fault - I would feel the same.

The Ukrainians who came to my area certainly reflect that pattern, and they tended to be in areas which weren't under occupation or threat of occupation or being most regularly shelled. The local organisation which was coordinating matches found that quite hard to deal with as it often wasn't those most in need who were coming to them for help.

Those that did had time to leave and collect documents and had the means to leave.

There are a few exceptions locally too though. One family who came from the east had one of the hardest times both getting out and getting visas. They couldn't leave for weeks because there was no safe corridor to do so, they didn't have the right documents, and they didn't want to leave the country before they had the visas despite being bombed because it was such a daunting prospect in itself. The family trying to sponsor them had to go to the local MP to try and resolve the mess and even then it took 8 weeks for a visa which I believe was one of the longest waits in the country. The stress it caused was extreme.

I think that's the one which really demonstrated the point.

It was very difficult because you couldn't exactly deem someone more worthy than another with any certainty.

I also think there was a trend for some Ukrainians to lay on an extra layer of sob story where they could in order to get a match because it was like the wild west to get a match and I do think a lot of hosts were deliberately led up the garden path with some of that too. Of course if you spoke English better and were more articulate you were more likely to get a match.

Some of this also reflected desparation to get out though and if you have means and ability you are always going to win in a stampede to the door.

But yes, the cross section of Ukrainians who made it to the uk are perhaps much less representative of Ukrainian society than the mix who went to elsewhere in Europe.