To be livid that year 11 DS thinks 4-5 hours/week homework/revision is enough for GCSEs?

[Hotdaisies22]

DS in year 11. Bright boy but has always been poor at doing homework at home despite being well set up for it at home (quiet desk space etc). Does his homework at homework club after school -Mon - Thurs max 5 hrs week (thats only time homework club room is available at his school). We're having conversations that he now needs to up his game these next few months before GCSEs and start studying /revising at home extra time. Getting massive push back and causing a lot of friction. He thinks what he does is enough and no intention of doing more "at the end of a tiring school day" (he only has a 20 min journey to school). What are other year 11s doing? (I'm trying to have conversation with his school on this but so far they've been rubbish - no reply!)

Yabvvu

An hour fully focused every school day is more than sufficient. Both my older children attended RG Uni's & one waiting on results from Cambridge currently.
Teenage years are stressful enough without the hyperbole and pressure you are adding.

Lay off.

YABU

Being livid isn't going to help anyone and the more you push the more they will push back.

Trust them to know what is right, if you want to intervene you need to talk calmly in a way to suggest 'if it was me I would do more revision' but being livid is madness and only causes harm.

5 hours per week is certainly more than I did 😉

There’s more to ‘success’, however you define that, than grades. They need to be self motivated and not just terrified of failure. They need to find their passion. They need self confidence and self esteem. They need to know how to relax. They need down time which enables them to grow, intellectually and as people. None of that is achieved by nagging them to revise.

100% this.

I’m a former exams officer. One pattern that often showed up is the high performing child with pushy parents. Revised all hours, got amazing top GCSE grades. Then couldn’t handle college/A-levels and dropped out or had burnout/breakdown.

If it doesn’t come from the child then parental pushiness won’t end well.

I always told the pupils and my own DD that you only need to get what you need for your ‘next step’. As long as you get that then you’re golden.

We need to remember that we are raising whole people, not exam passers. Please don’t destroy their mental health and set them up for a lifetime of not feeling good enough at such a young age when ultimately, GCSE’s are not the be all and end all and a wonderful, happy, successful and valuable life can still be obtained with or without them.

Thank you, that’s really reassuring that he won’t wish I’d pushed him harder

Sorry but I totally disagree with this lazy 'mediocrity will do' approach. Every DC should be aiming to do their absolute best and putting in the effort required to achieve this.

Not everyone can be stellar achievers. Some people will never do that no matter how hard they work

Remember the high rate of suicides in universities. Our children need to know that academic achievement is not a measure of their worth. Sadly many have been brought up to believe that.

Balance in life is a good lesson for them to learn, and a tool for future life.

@MichaelFabricantWig

No- but every DC should be supported DCs encouraged to get the best grades they are capable of to keep as many future options as open as possible- whether that be all 9s or all 5s.

YANBU to encourage better discipline and ambition in your child

Nobody said ‘lazy mediocrity will do’.
But equally, ‘overzealous, nothing but the best will do, pressure’ is liable to destroy some young people in so many ways. And destroy their relationship with their parents too.
Balance in all things - and understand that each child is individual and not a performing monkey to be whipped.

I tend to agree with this. But also in actually getting a good education - developing skills, knowledge, a love of learning. I think that school is too exam-oriented and dumbed down with learning how to answer exam questions. I have a DC who had very ambitious plans for university (for career-oriented reasons), but wasn't interested in putting the work in. I felt that it was my responsibility to encourage them to do some work. They resented this, and still do. They did get into the university though. I don't know what the answer is. Young people can develop a work ethic some time after it's needed for A'levels. I certainly think that many children can happily do a couple of hours of homework a night, plus some at the weekend. That still leaves them with a lot of time to do other things. And it makes a big difference to exam results and future options. So I would encourage it unless you meet strong resistance.

Why? Genuine question. Why should every dc be pushed to achieve the best grades they possibly can at the expense of their overall well-being and the development of intrinsic motivation?

I’ve just left a year 11 parents evening as a teacher. Among a mixed-ability group certain parents showed up who have not been in during the last four years,, including at the start of year eleven, because their kids are failing and want to know what I’m going to do about it.

I’m no advocate of stressing out 11 year olds but the expectation that kids do homework/prep for assessments starts early. The most hard working who will get 7-9 have left the middle and bottom far behind long before the start of GCSE courses. That level of success always comes down to parents values and expectations.

4-5 hours a week is quite enough homework for any child coming up to GCSEs.

I would aim for 5x1hr homework’s a week for years 7-9, 5x2hrs for 10 and 11 and 3x3 hrs plus free periods and work experience for 6th form. Doing that consistently throughout their time at school is much more effective than cramming. I saw The Michaela School head advocate 4hrs a night in the run up to GCSEs last week. I’m certainly no monster!

If it isn't enough, he will soon find out.
Better this happens at the GCSE stage of his life rather than later on!

@Idontmeanto

Michaela gets excellent GCSE results for a reason- DC are expected to work extremely hard and achieve their potential.

I believe year 11s have to hand in their phones for the months before their GCSEs so they can focus on revision- I will be doing this with my DC from February.

DT’s operated a mandatory homework club - an hour a day after school from year 7. This continued through to A levels for exams students. They believed in quality not quantity for revision. Exam students were expected to continue with their sports and music commitments.

The hour a day after school worked for DT’s - both got all A*’s at GCSE and A level.

i would never take their phones off them during exam season. Their friends and social life is equally important. I don’t want children who operate like machines - better to have well rounded children

I've created a separate post about my similar sounding year 10 boy.

I understand that getting livid doesn't help, but it's really hard if you have a DC pushing back, doing nothing and assuming all will be well when it very clearly will not.

What is the middle ground between leaving them alone (and possibly to fail) , encouragement and motivation and being livid?

There must be a constructive way to support a demotivated DC?

Thanks

I'm finding this thread (not everyone) worrying & weird. Why have you all bought into the mantra of "success" being purely exam result driven?

Some kids will be extremely academic (oxbridge)
Some will be academic (other unis)
Some will be entrepreneurial
Some will be tradespeople (joiners etc
Some will be in the arts
Some will design computer games (biggest growing global industry with big salaries to match
Some will be nurses

As long as one raises well rounded, compassionate, empathetic, truthful happy kids who find "their" niche.

Surely that is success?

My close friend is a senior academic at an RG Uni and the drop out/poor performance of some kids is huge. Some of these kids will have been unnaturally pushed by "exam results" driven parents who are livid.. That level of study/research for a kid who is not so inclined is impossible leading to drop outs/mental health issues and misery.

Stop pushing your wants/needs onto your children .

Encourage and Explore their passions.
Chances are the jobs they'll end up doing don't even exist yet.

Absolutely ridiculous

no matter what you say/do/threaten you can’t force a kid to study. They have to be self motivated.

Totally agree. My son got all As at N5 (9/8 equivalent at GCSE) and on course to do extremely well in his highers as well. Does he sometimes let his eye off the ball - yes. Would it be productive to me to shout at him, take his phone off him, stop him going out or his little part time job - no. He’d just be resentful and wouldn’t study any more.

at the end of the day - these are THEIR lives, not their parents. Yes we all want the best for our kids. But we cannot project that onto them and subject them to undue pressure to live the lives we want them to have. And if they do crap in exams - so what, really. It doesn’t have to be once and done at 16. There are other chances to pass exams or other routes to success. And if they fail and are disappointed, they will learn themselves that their old mum and dad were right all along and you do need to study and winging it doesn’t work.

I feel sorry for some of your kids. There’s no need for it.

@Idontmeanto ..

Yes parental expectations/ attitude to learning is key.
But so is identifying and supporting DC with needs early before they becomes disengaged and have low self esteem

Find out if there are any underlying problems - Is the subject teaching not good -there have been issues with no teachers in DC school - succession of temps even in GCSE years which did lead to class disruption which upset DS who wanted to learn - and none subject teachers taking classes.

What do his teachers say - is he turning up to lessons and doing the homework - is it all subjects he's demotivated with?

Is a tutor an option - one to one might help and he may work for a none parent adult better.

If he's a year off exams would on-line tools like Seneca or Khan academy bith fre though latter in more US based - or paid sites like tassomai or more general like flash card testing site Quizlet - something that gives positive reinforcement.

Does he know how to revise, does he need more support or better tools - Wales in yr 10 they are sitting actual GCSE exams so that helped motivate DS very suddenly but he still needed help.

Why is he demotivated - this is a big career fair coming up soon www.whatcareerlive.co.uk/birmingham/getting-there - if you can't get there see about other nearer you - it can open their eyes a bit to all the possibilities.

Rewards for results - DH parents did money for grades - not something I like but DH did well so 🤷‍♀️.

I suspect most parents are in the middle - not willing to let kids fail if a push could prevent that and not the unwavering demand for good grade and long hours.

I paid my dd for results. And I paid well.

Hard work & strategic planning, research & dedication in the real world least to better salary expectations so I mirrored that.

Graduated with a first from St Andrews in Classics & Greek.

All A's at higher and advanced higher
Also strongly encouraged recreation and fun and self care.