To be livid that year 11 DS thinks 4-5 hours/week homework/revision is enough for GCSEs?

[Hotdaisies22]

DS in year 11. Bright boy but has always been poor at doing homework at home despite being well set up for it at home (quiet desk space etc). Does his homework at homework club after school -Mon - Thurs max 5 hrs week (thats only time homework club room is available at his school). We're having conversations that he now needs to up his game these next few months before GCSEs and start studying /revising at home extra time. Getting massive push back and causing a lot of friction. He thinks what he does is enough and no intention of doing more "at the end of a tiring school day" (he only has a 20 min journey to school). What are other year 11s doing? (I'm trying to have conversation with his school on this but so far they've been rubbish - no reply!)

No but if a child has potential then they should have a choice. That means good academic results. Otherwise we perpetuate the myth that higher professions and the city are only for the independent school, affluent children.

@CaronPoivre I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise, are they? But the fact that you use 'low expectations' to mean 'not wanting law, medicine or the city' speaks volumes. My youngest DC is studying Marine Biology. It's what they have wanted to do since age 11 or so and have worked hard towards. But it doesn't demand AAA* to get in, nor is Oxbridge the gold standard provider. The picture really isn't black and white.

I do agree that it is very difficult when you have a Yr11 who doesn't yet know what they want to do and isn't motivated, because at that point keeping doors open is key, which does mean strong academics and a good work ethic. But not 22 hours a week on top of school.

A lot of kids would do better in life if they went into a manual trade rather than getting a second rate degree from a second rate university, getting themselves into debt to do so.

Low expectations are nothing to do with their career choices - our son chose to not go directly to university and we fully supported that. He did, however have the academic qualifications to do so - we knew it was actually an informed choice rather than ‘dunno, what can I do with a D and an E’?

It’s about ensuring what they do is actually a choice rather than a fall-back because the parents were too indulgent to support maximum achievement. A happy fifteen year old, who is cool, who chills with their friends may find they aren’t the happy, well adjusted, thriving and economically stable thirty year old. Clearly not all children can get exceptionally high A level or IB grades, but they absolutely can be supported to get their best grades.

One of our foster sons couldn’t read when he arrived and went to a special school. He’d been damned by parents who let him do his own thing - that thing involved hanging around, messing with a group in low level criminal activities, smoking and damaging the environment. His achievement wasn’t A levels but it was literacy, numeracy and onto City and Guilds qualifications that has allowed him to set up his own vintage vehicle renovating business. We are as proud of him as our other children.

Nothing to do with being a barrister or doctor - all about what choice actually means for an eighteen year old. Interestingly, few with high grades choose to go into bin collection or become shop assistants long term. I’m sure a few do, but most want the nice things in life and to be comfortable. That requires effort unless you’re born with a silver spoon.

@CaronPoivre I do agree with you, but I don't accept that making your DC work all the hours on top of their school work to the exclusion of all else starting this early in Yr 11 is healthy for the majority. There has to be a balance that includes wellbeing, and paying attention to that is not being indulgent. It's being a good parent.

I didn’t do that much, I’d feel school underprepared him if he hasn’t covered the work.

As long as the hours he is doing are productive, I’d say that sounds reasonable.

I wouldn’t worry he’d be “stressed” but if learning for 6 hours it’s hard to take more in, personally.

Ours worked hard from a young age but still had plenty of time for other things. They probably had more fun things than most. Learning and revising doesn’t have to be sat in a workbook at all. That would indeed be dire.

I wonder if the schools with excessive revision requirements have fallen behind and not completed the syllabus ?

I couldn't agree with this more. If they need 3-4 hrs studying a night then the child either isn't quite bright enough so perhaps is looking at the wrong career path or the school is not teaching well during the day.

DSs school was brilliant at structuring the school day once the syllabus had been taught so perhaps we were lucky. He didn't need high results but still got them as he wants to have options if he decides to go in a different direction and he did work hard, mostly in school and when he needed to outside, it was focused study and revision so no need for excessive hours outside of school. His vocational course is not particularly academic, it's talent based really but I would still consider him a high achiever.

DS2 won't be a high achiever academically regardless of hours he puts in as is limited by his difficulties but I do think he'll have a successful career in what he has chosen.

YABU.

It's only November. Exams in June are still a long way off.
TBH, being "bright" WILL get you a decent distance in GCSEs. In my experience, most schools don't expect "revision season" to start until Easter.

Personally, I'd back off for now, but under the mutual understanding that from Easter onwards, you expect pedal to the metal, "and what can your dad and I do to make that as easy as possible for you?" Whether that looks like reductions in chores, picking up in the car from school, rather than walking, a bedroom re-design, stationery supplies. etc etc.

That’s absolutely bonkers. Hours spent on something doesn’t equate to success, after a while your brain cannot absorb any more information and it would be more productive to rest and unwind. Also have you heard of work smarter not harder? At uni I revised the month before 9am-5pm, then went home and chilled. My friend did 9am-10pm. I got a 1st and she got a 2.1, because more hours doesn’t mean better grades.

Also what you are saying is generally bollocks. If your kid needs several hours a day to study, I’m sorry but they’re not bright and probably on the wrong path for them. I revised for my GCSEs the night before and A-levels the week before (and I did 4 a-levels and 6 AS’s), got into a top 10 uni and now have a professional job in a field that’s very in-demand but also offers great work-life balance. If I had had to do hours of revision a night just to not fail, I would have probably gone the vocational route - why pick an academic path if you struggle so much and have to work day and night to even keep up? It’s obviously not for you.

There is another thread now in AIBU where the poster is shocked that her DD's ABB is not enough to get into a Russell group uni. And yes, I fully agree that not everyone needs to go to an RG uni or any uni at all. But it's as well not to be taken by surprise. Revising the night before may have worked in the past. I don't believe it works now.

I don’t think ABB’s ever been enough to get into a top uni? I had to get A*AA for Bath and that’s not even RG. At the end of the day, if you’re genuinely smart you can get away with revising less (or even the night before), if you’re not then you need to do a bit more. But if you genuinely need to revise something bonkers like 22 hours on top of normal school and homework from November onwards, you’re a) not that smart b) don’t know how to revise effectively c) probably on the wrong path.

Oh and that was 11 years ago too!

Define 'ever' ABB was sufficient in the 80s before A stars existed and when fewer people did A levels and went to uni.

I got into Cambridge with A1A1B, and the standard offer for somewhere like Exeter at the time was BBC.

I went to an RG university in 2007 and my grades at A-level were BBC.

The thread isn’t about grades you need for Uni but whether excessive revision is needed. As several posters have said schools/parents insisting of hours of revision after school and the weekend are kidding themselves that it is beneficial and need to lower their expectations.

When I was applying for Uni, BBB was the standard offer at top universities for medicine. But yes, agree that certainly in recent history top universities have all required very high grades. Of course "top" universities are not the be all and end all, and depending on the student and the course they want to study may not, in fact be the best choice.

Depends on the course. 19 years since I went to Durham and you needed BBB for Languages and English. Meanwhile Manchester wanted AAB for almost everything.

Personally I agree with the previous posters that DC are now much more hard-working and driven when it comes to exams.

I’m lucky in that DS1 (year 11) is extremely hard working and studies hard, so I don’t need to intervene and impose rules. The impression I get from him and other parents is that most of his year groups are similar and want to get the best grades they can.

Having said that, I am surprised to see so many posters saying that 4 hours a week is sufficient at GCSE. DS would not get through his homework in that time (tbh be had more than that in year 7), never mind have time for extra revision. It would be very difficult in my view for a DC doing 4 hours a week to say that they had worked as hard as they could on results day.

If DS wasn’t self-motivated, I would have no hesitation in stepping in to ensure he was working (and certainly for more than 4 hours a week).

Most Y11s spend a lot of time in school in revision classes especially during the last term or so. If he's doing homework club, which for the most part will be work geared towards the exam then any extra revision at home is a bonus - an hour or so a night from now on will be fine unless he's seriously underachieving.

I agree with all of @CaronPoivre 's posts.

Hard work never killed anyone. Hard work comes with more options down the road and brings with it its own 'luck'. The sooner dcs see the connection between revising and better grades, it is for their good. This lesson is a good one to learn right through life.

Working hard still leaves times for lots of other extra interests (which don't include looking at your phone).

This has got to be a joke surely! My year 12 didn’t do that a month! My year 11 has crammed the night before his mocks last week. He never does homework either except 1/2 hour maths once a week. His predicted grades are fine .

Hard work has killed some people- and why take the risk?

I would try find out his predictions first before you have a go anymore yabu to keep having a go at him as it won't help and may have opposite affect ,your lad as my youngest will know what he needs to do and if he's doing homework st school he may well be doing a bit of revising too plus they do a lot of revision in class , my lad was looking at pretty terrible grades especially for maths but he wanted to go uni and astounded teachers and myself at getting grade he needed to get in 6th form just support and encourage him, that will help more than being livid! Exam time is tough enough