Anyone else’s nursery pulling this stunt at the moment?

[Skinnermarink]

Let me preface this by saying I KNOW nursery work is hard and it’s long and it’s woefully underpaid. It was a long time ago but I’ve worked in one myself. I can totally see why there’s a recruitment crisis with it at the moment.

DS is one and we thought we’d found a good nursery. Long established, nice staff etc. I wasn’t keen on sending him at all because I wanted him at home with me but it’s not financially viable. So four days a week he goes, at a cost of £1100 a month.

The amount of calls we’ve had to go and collect him over something or other have ramped up in the past eight weeks to the point of ridiculousness. They include

-a temperature that we never managed to catch at home and he was completely well. That happed 3x
upset stomach that magically we never saw at home, but came with a 48 hour exclusion. This went on for weeks. At worst he had a few soft nappies, certainly nothing anyone could describe as diarrhoea. I eventually got a stool sample to clear him for this at their insistence before they’d have him back. He missed days and days of nursery for this.

Teething pain which meant he was ‘not himself’ (I didn’t collect for this, as he was playing, eating and drinking, and I told them I wasn’t going to collect for something as flimsy as this and they were welcome to give calpol)

a head injury that we had to come immediately for or they’d call an ambulance, threw myself into a taxi in sheer panic to find him running around with a tiny bump on his head, but they wanted me to take him home to be checked out and not return him for 24 hours. I’m not under reacting by the way, it really was in no way anything other than a typical toddler bump.

This week has been the final straw. He had his MMR vaccine last week and developed a few tiny spots- a side effect listed on the NHS website. They called and said we had to collect and he couldn’t return today unless a doctor cleared the ‘rash’.

Luckily our GP is fab and had him in this morning, cleared him in seconds with a note so I took him straight to nursery because I had to get to work. There were already 9 babies in the room, mine would take it to ten. 3 members of staff. They looked pissed off and a bit panicked and said he couldn’t come in unless I had a doctor’s clearance - which I produced. The manager was called down who said they had staff sickness but she would be covering herself until an agency worker arrived.

I felt shit leaving him to be honest but it’s no exaggeration to say our jobs have been on the line due to dropping things to pick him up, staying off with him at short notice etc. we’ve used practically all remaining annual leave we had for Christmas so that’s scuppered plans to visit family. We don’t have any outside help, it’s just us, no grandparents to call in an emergency etc.

So I want to know has anyone else been in this situation? I’m not being paranoid (although I did tell myself I was at first) and I honestly think they have to pick babies to send home to stay within the ratios and then hope they stay off the next day.

I’ll add that DS has been genuinely unwell with things on occasion and of course we’ve kept him off. But we are at our absolute limit now and have pissed hundreds up the wall on unnecessary pick ups and days off.

Think I have found an alternative setting and are looking on Monday, but they have no availability until January.

Considering I employ 10 people and broke down the budget / expenditure above clearly demonstrates there’s logic behind the initial statement which is still valid. 🙄

Having previously managed and then later owned a childcare setting I can absolutely assure you that after corporation tax if I was left with 40 grand a year profit I would give up and go and manage a childcare setting instead of owning one.

it used to be profitable it absolutely is not now, especially if you’re not A “see you next Tuesday” and actually want to feed the children nutritious food that you would feed your own.

I’ve worked for big chains where I’ve been told baked beans, mash potatoes with cheese covers all the food groups and was an acceptable lunch this was at a place where we were charging the parents $120 a day.

I did read the circumstance. Regardless of whether she gave it to him or if she had other children there, childcare practitioners don’t exist to care for your sick child.

Christ this is what I dread. My partner works away from home and I'm sending my daughter to nursery three days from March whilst I go back to work.
I'm in a job that makes it difficult to just drop what I'm doing. I also have no family help that can go and get her if anything was to happen.
My boss is not the most empathetic of people either. Honestly dread this.
I would be seriously pissed off if I were in your shoes. Kids will be kids, all sorts of bumps and scrapes, drippy noses etc.
The staff shortages shouldn't be your problem, you are paying out your arse to be treated like this!
The system is all wrong. Childcare workers should be paid more, parents should be charged less and employees need more support/lenience for when things like this happen.

I’m not saying governments should just pick up the tab indiscriminately. But ultimately, it does cost more than 1100 a month to provide this service properly - so the UK risks seeing more and more parents just stay home as they realise that economically it makes no sense to work after having children. And when women exit the workforce it has an economic impact and that is a problem government has a responsibility to help address.
In France and most European countries governments provide subsidies or rebates - that is why more women are able to work.
but this seems to be a country run without any regard for the longterm wellbeing of its people - very short termist politicians and for reasons beyond my comprehension a lot less driven to support families.

office for national statistics says average uk wage is 38k - but since that can be influenced by some outliers at the top (eg London wages), better to take median wage as a comparator.
Median wage is about 33k in 2022.
🤷‍♀️ Probably a lot higher in London.

Not sure where you’re getting data from but directly from ONS website average uk wage is £617 per week which is £33k a year.

www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/averageweeklyearningsingreatbritain/october2022

Aside from that I challenge you to find a full time permanent childcare role that isn’t classed as a senior position paying more than £25k outside of London. In my area (Essex) roles pay anything between Minimum wage - £23k. So feel I’ve been quite generous.

I’ve just demonstrated that it doesn’t cost more than £1100pm to provide the service and this is also supported by the fact that the OP is paying £1100pm currently.

Happy to be proven otherwise with facts and figures 😊

I would talk to Ofsted and tell the nursery that that is what you are going to do. I would also talk to the local authority who licences them as well as making a formal complaint through their procedures. If they were short of staff then they could hire temporary help but that would cost money. I think that you and your DS deserve better,

We had a similar "phantom diarrhea" situation at our nursery school - our LO had to leave kindergarten twice for diarrhea which never repeated itself at home. We kept him home for the required 48 hours each time, but we found the solution the second time - I called the head caretaker and told her that there was no hint of diarrhea when LO was at home, and asked in a very concerned voice whether there mightn't be something at the nursery that was causing LO to get sick and whether we might need to check out conditions there. Never got another call to take him home for diarrhea after that...

@BusyAllWeek The office for national statistics can say that but it means that there are a lot of people earning a lot less than £38,000.

My daughter’s nursery has had on and off staffing issues since covid but to their credit, they are upfront about it and just straight up ask parents who can do so to keep their children at home for the day. Then it feels like the nursery community pulls together so the children of those parents who need to work can be cared for. This has only happened two or three times.

Find yourself a good reliable childminder worth their weight in gold

If nurseries are making so much money, why are so many having to close down? So many are making a loss/ making no money at all. Especially smaller settings and independents. It really doesn't help that the government don't pay enough in funding for the 'funded' spaces- yet parents are led to believe that childcare will be 'free' in those situations.

There's lots of expenditure involved- not just staffing, utilities, rent etc. You should see how many boxes of tissues we go through for a start!

I have the same problem with DS. DS goes to nursery W-F. At one stage I was receiving calls every Wednesday afternoon as he had a diahorrea nappy (just one) but no temp, eaten all his lunch, was playing happily and running round the garden. This would then result in an exclusion until 48 hours later meaning it wiped out the whole week. After picking DS up multiple times only to find out that DS was fine and no more diahorrea nappies for the rest of the week. I eventually had to take him to the GP who confirmed it was toddler diahorrea (meaning that he wasn’t ill or infectious). They accepted this and strangely enough the yucky nappies have stopped on a Wednesday as well.

I wouldn't call it 'pulling a stunt'. I would call it trying to keep the business going and adhering to guidelines.

I'm surprised you have experience of working in a nursery with that attitude - it must have been a long time ago. Guidelines and legislation has changed a lot. Not to mention the huge recruitment problems and issues with Covid.

I would find another nursery or stop being so quick to pick up. When they call tell them that you will leave immediately but you are at a meeting two hours away.

As a manager I have to deal with the knock on of nurseries which behave like this. One member of staff can barely ever put in a full week due to the nursery demanding kids be taken out. Every week there is something - often more than once a week.
I am mega sympathetic but I and others have to cover for this and do extra work. We are shortstaffed too and all working long days already. If the parent concerned weren’t such a decent person and brilliant employee I would probably think they were taking the mickey rather than being landed in it by their nursery. They feel hugely guilty about it. Nursery costs them a fortune, more than OP and there are no grandparents or family close to help.

You are paying a huge amount each month so that you can keep working. It is easy to to see they are jeopardising your work with all this time off. I would look for another setting that has a more common sense approach and enough staffing which seems is the root cause of this issue.

Maybe you'd be better off getting a childminder?

I would speak to the nursery, it’s not what all are like.

Our daughter goes four times a week, and has only been stopped once when suspected chickenpox. Which is understandable.

They even give our daughter antibiotics when she’s been on them.

I honestly think it depe

My kids go to hospital nursery and they’re more programatic about criteria to send home.
Knowing I’d turn up and argue the toss about what’s the best clinical intervention

Going through the same thing with my sons nursery. Same worries about having to cancel work last minute. Nurseries-especially chains just care about getting your monthly fee in advance

I would look into a childminder, and ask specific questions about their sickness policy before enrolling your child. I understand the need for ratios, but sending home or not admitting children who has a signed contract for places X days per week and X hours is very poor customer service.