Need advice on this possibly terrible/weak parenting decision of mine.

[KidsArt]

Really want brutal opinions pls.

DS1 is 3 years old. He can be pretty challenging, in his own world, never listens, doesn't want to play with others, and his nursery have talked about ASD.

DH doesn't work on Fridays. He takes DS1 and DS2 (18 months) swimming. They all love it.

I work from home on Fridays.

DH just couldn't get DS1 ready. He wasn't listening. Refusing to get dressed. Playing with his trains. Running away from DH. this went on for 20 mins

DH left without him. Took DS2 and just walked out. He did give DS1 warning that he would leave unless he got dressed.

DS1 lost his mind. I mean, sobbing, wailing, throwing himself at the door. "I want my daddy. Where is daddy? I want to go swimming. Why not me? Please please. Where is Daddy. I'm sorry I'm sorry"

I don't think I've ever seen him that upset. He was shaking. He got all his clothes and was trying to put his own pants on, falling over, crying, collecting his towel, trying to get out the front door, looking for the car out the window.

I made DH come back and get him.

DH thinks this the reason DS1 is the way he is. That he needed to suck it up.

Is he right?

Ah KidsArt ,I would have done exactly the same as you .Your son will still have learned a lesson ,he will remember how he felt being left . If he can learn of course at his age and with his personality .

Our kids need our love the most when they are most unloveable .As they say .

Big hugs to you .

This is what I thought. I've never been able to take my twins swimming anywhere alone until they turned 5.

Maybe he really needed the weep? I would have supported him as he wept. Let him weep it all out. Don't be afraid of his 'big feelings' - it could be he needs help learning to manage them.

Mummy was working.
There's no way Daddy should have left her with a distressed child while trying to do her job. His opinion was wrong for that reason alone.

Your husband sounds like a twat. Weren't you supposed to be working ?

It's not about 'sucking it up', if he's upset, he needs comfort and support. But not necessarily acquiescing to.

I woudln't worry too much about it as a one off, OP. I'd look into ahaparenting, if nobody's recc'd it yet: www.ahaparenting.com/

Older than 3 - then natural consequence and wouldn't appreciate being undermined by my other half.

At three - I'd have everyone ready at door and give another chance of we are going - you have x time to get ready - then if no I would have gone.

Though I often found it easier to make getting ready game like - lots of praise lots of count downs and some firm reminders what he was supposed to be doing to avoid standoffs as has one a child who would cut off their nose to spite their face and insist it was all fine.

Natural consequences and sticking to what you say really does pay off long term though tears at time can be very upsetting just 3 is on the young side - though not by that much.

I would going forward be reminding him days before hand what happens if he doesn't get ready as a week is a very long time at three and expecting him to remember isn't really fair - perhaps also encourage hm to get things ready beforehand ie night before finding shoes coat bag packed - and reminding him again of expectations that he gets ready - to help him succeed next time.

I think it is OK.

Next time DS1 kicks off about getting ready you can both say - remember when you messed around before swimming and Daddy left you behind? That will probably be enough, and if it isn't leave him behind and don't relent next time.

it is easy on MN for people to say what they would do when it isn't in-front of them right that minute.

@KidsArt you were working? I cannot imagine my DH would think it ok to leave me with a 3 year old whilst I was working except in an emergency. I agree with the PPs who say both children or neither children.

I would never leave a 3 year old behind. They still need help and input getting ready and it's normal that they don't listen and cooperate. You can't abandon them for acting like a 3 year old.

I would have summoned DH home too OP

the punishment was clearly way too much for your child to understand and so wasn’t effective in that situation

I couldn't disagree more. It was absolutely effective and taught DS that if he didn't get dressed he would be left.

One of my children is like this.

We need to allow AT LEAST 30 mins to get him dressed. Rushing him just makes it worse. Games can help sometimes as long as they're not too pressured. Other times, it's just a nightmare.

He's 7 now and is starting to get a bit better.

I think if you've not been there, you don't know what it's like! It's so exhausting and difficult and NOT the same as trying to dress a slightly reluctant kid and I can tell by some of the replies some pps do not get it. You are working really hard at it I can tell.

He's only little. It would have been too much to leave him behind.

Agree with this by the way. He's 3, not 13 and it's not his fault he struggles with transitions.

You really needed to agree on this together. How come your DH thought it was okay to leave him home without consulting you while you’re working? That was wrong of DH.

Natural consequences work way better for kids, NT and ND, than unconnected punishments like time out for example. Your DH gave a warning, a very rational sensible one, if you don’t get dressed now you won’t be able to come swimming. Especially with another child to think about, you can’t have your other child late to their swim or missing it cos of their brother messing around. You’ve taught him that you don’t mean what you say and that you’re not on the same page. It’s the same as ‘we’re leaving the park in two minutes’ sobbing ‘oh okay, let’s stay another ten!’. Or the dreaded ‘right I’m leaving without you’ empty threat. Kids have to learn you mean what you say. It’s okay to fuck up and back down and apologise sometimes, but this was really confusing for your child. You will really shock him if you stick to what you say next time but you will need to be consistent to undo this cock up.

And it wasn’t a punishment, it was natural consequences. People acting like not being able to go swimming on one occasion is a punishment or unspeakably cruel to a three year old surprise me! It’s not sending to bed hungry or smacking or isolating. It’s not being able to do a nice extra thing because he is not getting ready in time, despite encouragement and help and a warning. You definitely need to get on the same page with parenting approaches. If DH or I decided this then we wouldn’t undermine one another, despite our personal opinion. We’d back each other up and discuss later.

TeenDivided absolutely. I think that reminder should be sufficient to help him realise what might happen again.

I say 'should' because if OP's son does have ASD he could also have LDs or processing disorders. And may not be able to process what's being said to him, or be able to apply what happened last time to the next.

"Never set a consequence you won't follow through" is definitely good advice but tricky where one parent is unilaterally setting the consequence and the other has to enforce it, especially where you have different approaches.

Is he 3 nearly 4 or just turned 3 because that makes a bit of a difference? If he is closer to 4 he should be able to understand the consequences even accounting for additional needs.
I think I would have done the same as you because I would have hated to see him so upset but I think it probably would have been better if you had stuck to your DH's decision. He was home with you and safe and in all honestly I would say now thinks that this is how he gets his own way. I also feel sorry for your DH but especially for DS2 if he has missed out on swimming time.
All you can do is see how it goes next week and if he is doing the same than your DH will have to go without him and he will have to learn the lesson.

Where did I say that the one who was ready didn't get to go swimming?

That's precisely why I said that the one who wasn't ready had to go despite not being ready. Get the cooperative one dressed and take the other one in their pyjamas/with no shoes one/whatever it takes.

I would not leave a distressed child in the care of someone who is trying to work and I would not deprive the younger child by giving up on the endeavour.

OP, that sounds heartbreaking. Three is very young indeed and some children respond to the very idea of being abandoned/left more strongly than others.

Why do nursery think he may have ASD? Apart from being in his own world, do you feel that autism might be a possibility? What's he like with shared attention (wanting to show you something he's doing, for instance, or coming over to see what you are finding interesting or distracting)? Does he have any communication issues? What is his play like?

Three can be quite early to diagnose ASD if it's not blindingly obvious (DS2's was and he was diagnosed at 2.5) but if you feel it's a possibility, please see his GP and ask for a referral. I'm afraid I don't know the route these days - DS2 initially saw the community paed who then agreed he needed a multi-panel assessment. Provision for this is now very thin on the ground.

In the meantime, I see absolutely no reason for not treating him as if he were on the spectrum. Give him plenty of time to process transitions and know that they're coming. He may respond well to a Now:Next board (google it - it's a visual aid that shows what he's doing right now and what is coming up next), or even to a social story, which now tend not to get used for social expectations in a given situation, but to explain simply what will happen. We use them a lot for things like going to the dentist, airport, swimming, new school etc. You don't need to use the official symbols, you could draw some very simple stick figures. Keep it simple and remember it's to help him understand that in order to go swimming, he has to stop playing and get ready.

And he does know what he had to do - because he did - which is DH's point, he can actually do these things.

DH doesn't have the patience for it. THat's the problem. He just doesn't understand why DS doesn't just get dressed

The problem is that you have too much patience, ie a pushover. Your child was having a toddler tantrum and you gave in to it instead of supporting your DH to parent effectively. It was a tantrum because of how he responded to DH returning so it wasnt a meltdown. You need to start separating the two different ways, what is a normal tantrum and what isnt. You can be firmer without being mean but you are creating future problems for your entire family if you continue to give in to your son.

Actions have consequences. DH told him what would happen, and it did. 3 year olds are very clever- all he got from that was that he could mess about as much as he wanted, because if he kicked up a fuss then daddy would come back anyway. So chances are he'll do it again. Tough love is very often good love.

3 year olds are very clever-

3 year olds are three! Fucking tiny wee babies!