Need advice on this possibly terrible/weak parenting decision of mine.

[KidsArt]

Really want brutal opinions pls.

DS1 is 3 years old. He can be pretty challenging, in his own world, never listens, doesn't want to play with others, and his nursery have talked about ASD.

DH doesn't work on Fridays. He takes DS1 and DS2 (18 months) swimming. They all love it.

I work from home on Fridays.

DH just couldn't get DS1 ready. He wasn't listening. Refusing to get dressed. Playing with his trains. Running away from DH. this went on for 20 mins

DH left without him. Took DS2 and just walked out. He did give DS1 warning that he would leave unless he got dressed.

DS1 lost his mind. I mean, sobbing, wailing, throwing himself at the door. "I want my daddy. Where is daddy? I want to go swimming. Why not me? Please please. Where is Daddy. I'm sorry I'm sorry"

I don't think I've ever seen him that upset. He was shaking. He got all his clothes and was trying to put his own pants on, falling over, crying, collecting his towel, trying to get out the front door, looking for the car out the window.

I made DH come back and get him.

DH thinks this the reason DS1 is the way he is. That he needed to suck it up.

Is he right?

But when DS1 climbed into the car, and DH looked pissed off, and DS2 started to cry and DS1 was smiling from ear to ear - I did think, am I letting DS1 just dominate everything?? - that's not good for him. He already struggles with not doing what he's told at pre-school and thinking he can do what he wants.

I mean this is also not surprising - of course he thinks he can just do what he wants… because he can. He behaves however he likes, and as long as he screams and causes a fuss if he dislikes the consequence, they will immediately be called back for him. At which point he’ll be ‘smiling ear to ear’ because now he’s learned that there are no consequences to his behaviour.

The idea behind the punishment was solid but what fucks it up is that your DH sounded rather disorganised and he did it out of anger/frustration rather than as a teaching moment. And that's not great. No judgement there - see my fail below.

He was right to threaten to leave DS at home and right to follow through.
However you were also right to call him back when you realised that the effect of the punishment caused that amount of distress. I'm sure it was a massive shock to him but lots of cuddles and no more telling off about it will go a long ways towards making you all feel better. As will planning better.

See what it's like next week - but also have swim stuff packed from the night before, have clothes laid out from the night before as well, and do LOTS of countdowns - "after breakfast we all need to get dressed and get our shoes on" LOTS of reminders, and give himself ample time. And then LOTS of praise when they are all in the car on time setting off.

I had an issue where 3yo DS would run off in public. I tried everything, right down to my worst parenting fail where I smacked the back of his leg. I always swore I'd never smack but I reflected that I did it because I was frustrated and it wasn't coming from a genuine place of teaching different behaviour. Spoke to a very wise colleague who's kids were reared for advice and on the back of that I did a dummy run to the supermarket a day I didn't need anything. On the way I explained expected behaviour - hold mummys hand, hold the basket, no running off. I explained that if we did all that and he didn't run off, he would be allowed a muffin as reward. If he ran off, we would get in the car and go home, no muffin.

Naturally, he shot off as soon as we got into Tesco. Caught him and gave warning 1. Did it again, so lifted him and got as far as the car with him protesting he would behave. So chance 2, got in and he was good for about 5 mins then shot off again, so it was back to the car, and back home, no muffin. He was balling his eyes out. After that it only took a stern "do we need to go back to the car?" for him to not run off.

However, I planned it out for a trip we didn't need to do - in the heat of the moment like your DH, needing to get somewhere by a certain time I don't know if I could have done any better than him.

He is only 3. I think he had consequences enough.

Next swimming morning I would explain to him that he needs to be ready to go otherwise Daddy would have to go without him and he was so upset last time. Maybe start the process of getting ready the night before by packing his little bag, laying out his clothes with him so he knows the plan.

I couldn't have left a little 3 year old out of swimming to prove a point.

My daughter has to do this with her DD who can be extremely challenging. It's heartbreaking to watch but such a valuable lesson if implemented after fair warning. DGD is 7 now and getting better and following instructions as she's learnt she has to bear the consequences if she doesn't.

Awful when they're tiny but it will pay off

I couldn't have left a little 3 year old out of swimming to prove a point

It’s not proving a point, it’s demonstrating what happens as a consequence. If you don’t get ready for swimming in time, you don’t go swimming. Those people who did get ready in time will go swimming without you.

OP, I think you and DH need a good long talk about handling expectations and managing DS1’s behaviour in a united way. Today was difficult, sure, but put it behind you and agree an approach you can both accept. You’re on the same side and it’s so much better when you know the other parent will back you up.

OP I'd have done the same. I couldn't have watched him be so upset. Just do your best, we are all just doing our best

Poor thing, he's only 3. I'm sure nearly being left behind was enough of a consequence. Remember the last time you didn't get ready, you nearly got left behind! And he will remember how horrid that was.
I hope he's having a lovely time at the swimming pool :)

I think a lot of people are forgetting that OP was working! DH shouldn't have left her trying to manage a distressed child. It was his turn for childcare.

I haven't read the thread. I'm autistic with autistic children and reading what your DH did has made me feel sick. You can't treat autistic children the way you would allistics. OP you were right, your DH was borderline abusive. He needs to learn how to deal with autistic children. Did they inherit it from him? He has need strategies to help him parent well, it's definitely more challenging as an autistic parent.

That's right. The boy did what had been asked of him. Perhaps he'll get ready without a song and dance next time.

He's three AND he's (suspected) autistic. He is not developmentally going to be able to work out how much time he has to play, how long it will take to get dressed, or what the consequences will be of not getting dressed.

Plus getting dressed is a sensory nightmare - PJs off, new clothes on, new clothes are colder, might feel tight or scratchy.

I think you did the right thing on this occasion. It doesn't sound as though he was given very much advance warning that he was at risk of missing swimming - however obvious it might seem to NT adults, it's not obvious to an ASD three year old. He was "told" - did he process this information? His reaction suggests he didn't.

My child is 8 and still finds it very hard to get dressed and to understand how time works. She just seems oblivious to the concept that time will move forward whether she is participating or not - it's almost as though she thinks she can pause the 'getting dressed' stream while doing the 'staring out of the window' stream or 'lining up socks' stream.

We try to avoid having toys in the bedroom, we have a visual print out of what 'dressed' looks like, and these days she will passively let me dress her which is a huge bonus because at 3 she was the same as your DS.

Can I ask, is there any reason he can't go to the pool in his PJs, if your DH packs his clothes to change into after swimming? Cut out the whole difficult transition.

Also, please don't assume that his smile at getting to go swimming indicates he's manipulating the situation. He was happy, he smiled, he doesn't have the social awareness to know that the proper NT response is to pretend to be abashed and keep a low profile for an unspecified amount of time.

Also OP, join the Facebook group Gentle parenting for autistic children UK, you'll get some great help and support there.

3 is a tricky age, at just three they are still toddlers , martyrs to their emotions, but when they are nearly 4 they should be starting to understand about consequences.

wish I felt as sure about my parenting decisions as some of you guys.

It’s really easy to be sure when it’s not your kid and not your life! I think we all have doubts sometimes.

What your post reminded me of was experiences with my own DH and DS, where a situation would escalate like this one did and end in a consequence, and it used to really frustrate me because with a bit of sensitivity the whole thing could have been avoided- I used to feel my DH expected DS to do things as an adult would (so eg he would be drawing and DH could say “time to get ready for swimming” and expect DS to
immediately switch activity, and when it didn’t happen the only parenting “tools” he’d reach for would be irritation and then consequences). It used to drive me crazy as a little bit more sensitivity could have avoided the whole thing- yes, at the end the consequence was appropriate to the behaviour but the behaviour was a result of DH’s obvious irritation which stemmed from unrealistic expectations…I don’t know whether any of that applies here. But I can see why you might object to the consequence if the whole
situation was partly your DH’s fault. How are things between you generally?

I think your DH was right to leave and you were right to give room for DS to succeed.
Next week is your real learning point though. Give him lots of cues that he must be dressed and ready for swimming (don't say 'or else') but if he isn't ready after lots of reminders, then DH should go without him and not return. Be prepared with your work for this to be a possibility.
Even at 3 natural consequences are a good way for little children to learn.

I used to be like you where I would put a consequence out for my ASD ds4 and he would react the same way going into those extreme melt downs and he would always win and ultimately he took the absolute piss out of me , he took control I lost all my control and everybody was miserable, it impacted on the other 2 kids majorly, I now fully follow through with the consequences regardless of how upset or hysterical he is and it has worked as he now respects those boundaries and doesn’t take the piss out me, it’s not easy and doesn’t happen over night but you need to do it because he needs to learn

Sort of understand if dc was 6 or 7.. but 3??

my DC is 3yo and I could not imagine doing that to her. The rejection your child must have felt 😢. Poor boy

i would be having a catalogue of cross words with my husband

My oldest when was about 3 was told that if he didn't get undressed to go in bath RIGHT NOW, he'd go in fully clothed.

And he did.

It's not a punishment. It's a consequence. If you do X, Y will happen. Or if you don't do X, Y will happen.

The child was not abandoned, he was at home with his mother. I do think you were a bit weak OP because you caved very quickly. Next week you will have to remind your child several times that Daddy DID leave without him last week because he refused to get dressed. If he refuses again, then this time, no phonecalls to your husband asking him to come back. However much he kicks off.

I also think you did the right thing. I know it's awful seeing a child upset but he's 3 and it will be a good lesson. If you say you'll go without him, he now knows it's true! Just makes sure he understands the lesson!

In the long term, he needs a plan about how to deal with what to do when one child can't/won't go swimming because this could happen again and it could be either or both boys who act up. If you're not working then it's fine but you were working and trying to do that and looking an upset child is not professional. You were not unreasonable to call your husband back because you were working.

Excuse me if I'm wrong but if this was a meltdown because of autism, your h's return wouldn't have stopped the crying because he wouldn't have processed that fact amongst the overload. In this instance, he behaved like a NT child when he stopped crying because he got his way. He's 3 so it's normal that he didn't realise that daddy would leave without him but hopefully he will remember this and next week will be easier.

You need to mindful of not punishing your younger son because his brother is ND. I'm glad that he still got to go swimming because if you weren't at home, your h would have had to abandon the trip.

We’re all just making it up as we go along, don’t beat yourself up or second guess yourself too much. Your DS isn’t going to be emotionally scarred for life by one parenting incident, I’d use it as a springboard to discuss with your DH what your future approach to similar incidents will be so you’re on the same page as much as possible.

I made DH come back and get him.

You see stroppy son, if you kick and scream then Mummy will instruct Daddy to come and get you, she is after all the arbiter of what's right in your household Daddy's opinion doesn't matter, so next time you can't get your own way you will know what to do!

I have had similar issues with my own children - I have made many weak decisions, partly because I find it hard to see my children upset.

Having said this, I think what you did was wrong - you are sending the wrong message to your child. It may give him short term happiness, long term he will be less well equipped to adequately deal with life.
3 years is old enough to understand consequences and patterns. He needs to know that if he won’t get dressed he can’t go out, that other people matter too, and that it’s not acceptable for him to delay or ruin an outing for others.

I would also feel annoyed if I were your husband at having my decisions over ruled. But of course you had your own workday to get on with so maybe you can probably smooth that over

I think you were right - would have done the same probably.
3 is young to understand.

Also its rubbish of your husband to leave him when you are working