Need advice on this possibly terrible/weak parenting decision of mine.

[KidsArt]

Really want brutal opinions pls.

DS1 is 3 years old. He can be pretty challenging, in his own world, never listens, doesn't want to play with others, and his nursery have talked about ASD.

DH doesn't work on Fridays. He takes DS1 and DS2 (18 months) swimming. They all love it.

I work from home on Fridays.

DH just couldn't get DS1 ready. He wasn't listening. Refusing to get dressed. Playing with his trains. Running away from DH. this went on for 20 mins

DH left without him. Took DS2 and just walked out. He did give DS1 warning that he would leave unless he got dressed.

DS1 lost his mind. I mean, sobbing, wailing, throwing himself at the door. "I want my daddy. Where is daddy? I want to go swimming. Why not me? Please please. Where is Daddy. I'm sorry I'm sorry"

I don't think I've ever seen him that upset. He was shaking. He got all his clothes and was trying to put his own pants on, falling over, crying, collecting his towel, trying to get out the front door, looking for the car out the window.

I made DH come back and get him.

DH thinks this the reason DS1 is the way he is. That he needed to suck it up.

Is he right?

You were wrong to make him come back. Weak parenting is right.

Your husband needs to respect the fact that you are working and he is responsible for both children.

If he can’t manage getting both kids out of the house without a meltdown then he needs to stay at home with them (and do something that doesn’t interfere with your work).

There is no way on earth my husband would pull this shit on me whilst I am WFH.

I think two things.

I’ve been pretty clear and have strong boundaries with my dc with asd. I think this has helped them as other people eg school won’t be able to flex for them as we can in the home.

But we try really hard to set them up to succeed. Eg egg timer to stop current activity, multiple warnings. Explanation of when I count to twenty you need to be dressed or I will have to go.

I removed dc from toddler play groups twice for unacceptable behaviour. Never had to do it again as they learned. Lots of sobbing but they do need to understand there are boundaries.

I’m sending you and dh lots of sympathy Op - it’s a hard road

If you are wfh then you are working and not available to look after DS1. Your DH shouldn't have left him behind in this situation.

Also I think the shock of being temporarily being left behind will have had an impact.
It's not good for a child to be so upset so I think you were right to intervene. For some children it is more difficult to 'behave' correctly, it may not necessarily be naughtiness, but difficulty with transitions etc. He should not be punished for genuine struggles. You know your child best so can gauge this better than MN. If nursery have mentioned potential ASD then I would be getting an assessment as soon as you can (waiting lists are long). If he needs support the earlier it's put in place the better.

I'd have done the same as you, ASD or not. Although my DH probably wouldn't have come back!

My daughter can be like this, she is 4, no ASD. He apologised, tried to get his act together, saw the consequences, so yes, I think you did well. If he had just sat on the floor in a tantrum I wouldn´t have relented. Sometimes we have to see nuances and readapt...

I think following though does matter, and he got the consequence from Daddy leaving. Then he tried to make it better by getting dressed. You have taught him that by doing this he can make things better, and I think that is also an important lesson. We all need to learn to climb down and change our behaviour! And that's hard.

If he is difficult next week then to calmly talk to him about how upset he was when Daddy left without him and give him two choices. Get dressed and swim or stay home.

I think you were right. Your description of your child’s reaction made me want to cry.

That sounds like a really fucking mean and awful thing to do. Kids that young can't process things in that way, especially with ASD. The child won't learn anything other than his father is going to reject him. You should have videoed it to show your husband the pain he caused. Twat.

You were quite right to make DH come back.

For heaven's sake the child is only 3. Even if there is no neurodiversity issues that's not a lot of maturity and forward thinking.

It wasn't wrong of DH to eventually leave the house, but then the right thing fir him to do would be to drive around the corner, stop and wait for 5 minutes then phone you to check the situation as this outcome was 100% predictable.

Experiencing a few minutes of devastation at having been left behind is consequence enough for a 3yo. Making him miss the whole swimming expedition is too big a punishment.

Op it might help to look at parenting strategies for PDA.

You did the right thing. Husband was being a twat. Cruelty just teaches them cruelty.

It’s not just about choices though. It’s about a 3 year old understanding what tasks to do in what order, how start and complete the task, how to stay focused, how to manage anxiety about the tasks and about leaving the house.

A child may make a choice in their head to do the thing that daddy wants them to do but find themselves struggling to fulfil the requirements.

It may be that the threats to leave made DS more stressed and less able to focus and organise.

DH’s management risks DS feeling more anxious about leaving the house and getting left behind in general, which will make him less able to focus and complete tasks in the future.

I am a fan of natural consequences but would be raging about this for a few reasons.

Firstly, you were working from home and therefore unavailable for parenting. So leaving your son was not an option for DH any more than leaving him in an empty house would have been. He had no right to leave a hysterical child for you to deal with,or to involve you in any way without discussing it with you.

Secondly, I am not sure your son was able to grasp the impact of the potential consequence in this case, so don't think he was really making a choice. I will have conversations like: "what about your coat?" When DC is going out, followed by "I don't need one", so "well, it looks pretty cold. You will need to come in when you are freezing. Are you sure you don't want it now?". So when he choses to go out and freeze, it is a choice followed by a natural consequence he clearly understands. If your son didn't understand, then it feels unduly harsh to go as far as it went.

I would be more inclined to say he would have to go in his pyjamas. Or, at a push, say I would need to put ds2 and the stuff in the car, so he was understanding that I was getting ready to leave. If that didn't get him doing it, I would unpack the car and say it was a shame we couldn't go, but the time for going had passed now and there is no swimming this week.

I would not abandon him. Then they tend to concentrate more on the unfairness they perceive at the abandonment and less on their role in it.

I think what happened was perfect actually.

Your 3 year old learned that there is a very real risk that he will get left behind if he doesn’t get ready. He got a second chance though. Call this morning a ‘warning shot’. Tell him next time, daddy won’t come and get him so he’s better hurry up. And next time make sure he really DOES follow through.

I think 3 years olds need a chance to put things right, and you gave him that.

I think the issue here that was so upsetting for him was that his dad went out with his younger brother and left him behind. If there was only one child involved the consequence would have been that nobody went anywhere - so there is learning from his actions but not so devastating .

It's much harder when two children are involved - especially if one child has additional needs .

He’s three. I don’t think your decision was weak at all. Clearly the issue with him needing to get dressed needs to be addressed- but I don’t think his dad just walking out on him is the way to do it.

Yeah - I think the upset from DS1 was far more about DS2 and DH going somewhere without him, rather than missing swimming.

In between sobs, he was saying things like "DS2 and daddy gone. DS1 want to go to too" and "bye bye mummy, me go now with daddy and ds2" and trying to get out the front door - it was the feeling that they had left him. And that his brother was taken in a way of 'Fine, we will go have a nice time without you'

I do understand people saying these are natural consequences but to me - it seemed too harsh. Too raw. An 11 year old would be upset but know they were coming back, know they could probably go next week. DS1 seemed completely and utterly panicked.

But when DS1 climbed into the car, and DH looked pissed off, and DS2 started to cry and DS1 was smiling from ear to ear - I did think, am I letting DS1 just dominate everything?? - that's not good for him. He already struggles with not doing what he's told at pre-school and thinking he can do what he wants.

I am really conflicted. I wish I felt as sure about my parenting decisions as some of you guys.

Oddly your son mysteriously developed the ability to listen and behave once he thought he was about to miss out on a treat he enjoys. I wonder if your DH returning may have an adverse effect though and he may play up even more now because he knows they will come back.

I think you were right.

He's 3 for crying out loud. The shock of nearly being left behind will be enough.

Just emphasising this, as it’s a good idea. I work with ASC kids. They are a mixed bundle, but they often struggle with things like:
cause and effect
time sequences
one thing happening after another

Do make a social story, and make a list of what has to happen for him to go. In older years we make visual timetables of what is happening next. He is young but if you can put the effort in of making pictures to show the sequence of what has to happen and pull the pictures off one at a time as they are completed it may help.

I think the shock you describe of not going was consequence enough on this occasion.

My ds who has asd was similar at that age , he was pretty demand avoident as well.

I wouldn't have left him to get in that state and wouldn't have learnt anything from it .

He's 9 now and understands natural consequences but at 3 he wouldn't have learnt anything from being left , it would possibly have caused more anxiety though . Transitioning can be tough at that age anyway without adding asd into the mix

Sometimes natural consequences are harsh

harsher than most traditional ‘punishments’ in fact.

but they work incredibly well, especially in ND children - hence why they’re recommended. Children from trauma backgrounds also benefit from them (so much so most local authorities require adoptive parents to be trained in therapeutic parenting which is very natural and logical consequences based)

I would have done the same thing as you. He was distraught. He's too young/immature/maybe SEN to understand that what he was doing would have such dire consequences. I don't think that parents should rule their kids w pain!

I also don't think it would have been a disaster if DH HAD gone on and left DS1. I hear what another poster said about control - this is definitely a thing as kids get older, but it really doesn't sound like it here.

Not such a fan of consistency as some others here - I think you can be responsive and change things.

I was just going to say this. If the child had still just been running round playing I would have said it was cruel as clearly the child doesn’t have the comprehension to understand why they’ve been left.

But your child instantly ran to do as he’d been asked, which he’d been refusing to do, as soon as he wasn’t allowed to go for an activity he enjoyed. If I was you I’d have said ‘you didn’t want to get ready when asked, so you didn’t go swimming.’