Need advice on this possibly terrible/weak parenting decision of mine.

[KidsArt]

Really want brutal opinions pls.

DS1 is 3 years old. He can be pretty challenging, in his own world, never listens, doesn't want to play with others, and his nursery have talked about ASD.

DH doesn't work on Fridays. He takes DS1 and DS2 (18 months) swimming. They all love it.

I work from home on Fridays.

DH just couldn't get DS1 ready. He wasn't listening. Refusing to get dressed. Playing with his trains. Running away from DH. this went on for 20 mins

DH left without him. Took DS2 and just walked out. He did give DS1 warning that he would leave unless he got dressed.

DS1 lost his mind. I mean, sobbing, wailing, throwing himself at the door. "I want my daddy. Where is daddy? I want to go swimming. Why not me? Please please. Where is Daddy. I'm sorry I'm sorry"

I don't think I've ever seen him that upset. He was shaking. He got all his clothes and was trying to put his own pants on, falling over, crying, collecting his towel, trying to get out the front door, looking for the car out the window.

I made DH come back and get him.

DH thinks this the reason DS1 is the way he is. That he needed to suck it up.

Is he right?

Oh OP, your description of your DS makes me feel so sad for you both.

I think you did the right thing tbh. He is only small still and so next week when they go swimming he should remember how upset he felt this week - and you would need to remind him - and with a bit of luck learn from the incident.

It isnt weak parenting, to me that is empathetic instinctive parenting.

I have Cerebal Palsy as does DS, in the childhood years one way it manifested for both of us as have litrally zero attention span.

I believe its something that was declassified from the mental health handbook called Maladjusted Daydreaming and I still sometimes struggle with it now.

You can't punish kids for something against their control, we dont CHOOSE to be like this and if my DS doesnt get ready on time its because I failed to keep reminding him when he got distracted (which is every two seconds).

And yes I remember PLENTY of time of being punished for stuff I didnt do on purpose you know what happened?

I lashed out and became completely uncontrollable, In my view if I was always going to get punished for things I cant help anyway then theres zero incentive to even try to behave.

I would have reacted in the same way OP, he is only little, 3 is very young and the punishment seemed pretty harsh.

I think you should take your own advise

Absolutely ridiculous suggestion that this would cause abandonment issues.

Well what do you usually do? Do you just follow him from room to room saying ‘we must get dressed now… we must get dressed now… we must get dressed now…’

I would have a now and next and offer limited control options. As soon as we woke up, in the closed bedroom, the board was out ‘now we get clothes on, next we get breakfast, now we brush teeth, next we watch one episode of x.’ As for limited control - do you want to help get dressed or shall I dress you? Then I’d dress him. Sometimes he cried, so I would show the nursery board ‘now we put clothes on, next we get breakfast.’ Eventually it just became part of the routine. You get dressed, then go to nursery. What I wouldn’t do would be follow him from room to room saying ‘we have to get dressed.’ There’s no point in that.

If it had been agreed with you in advance, it might have helped if your DH could have offered a choice : Pyjamas or Swimming ? (preferably with visuals).

“What I wouldn’t do would be follow him from room to room saying ‘we have to get dressed.’ There’s no point in that.”

has the OP said that’s what she or her husband do?

@CherylCrows
you clearly don’t know anything about it then

Yes. In the quote I posted above that reply that I wrote. She says he runs from room to room and she ‘just keeps saying DS we have to get dressed now.’

@KidsArt I have been really harsh and I apologise. I spoke through my own triggers.
I really think you need to talk this through with your oh and have a genuine look at the damage this kind if thing can cause.

You should have followed through.

Asd or not.

He understood he had missed it because he noticed that DH had left, realised why he had left and understood he'd missed out. But yet apparently couldn't hear him or comply when asked to get changed

My son is autistic. They still need to learn cause and effect is an age and ability way. This is clearly something your ds understands.

And if he is autistic actually you've probably made it harder. He'll now think the rule is - ignore, carry on playing, but you'll get to go anyway.

Because of a lot of autistic children learn by routine and so anything you do becomes what they expect.

If he does the same next week - DH should give a countdown - leave - and NOT come back. And you need to support that.

Agree with this. Yes make some allowances for possible ASD but ultimately he will need to function in the world as an adult one day and suffer the consequences of actions. ASD doesn't mean he cannot control himself or make decisions at all (given he can dress himself i have assumed he is not on the end of the spectrum where he doesn't have capacity to make decisions etc).

I think he had learned his lesson and now knows there can be consequences, the fact he then wanted to be good and was eager and able to sort out his own stuff shows a lot of progress. Next week if he's difficult, say, 'remember what happened last week daddy won't come back for you this week if you don't get ready like a big boy'. And really leave him behind if he doesn't. I think he's probably quite clever and manipulative, but he has obviously learned that he can push things too far.

Considering ‘abandonment issues’ aren’t even recognised psychologically you’re the one who seems unable to understand. It’s often grouped under general anxiety and treated that way, and nothing the OP has described would cause anxiety disorders in children or adults.

I’m wondering if you’re getting confused with attachment issues.

which would be equally ridiculous

Saw that you were running room to room after him.
As PP said, I would make getting dressed the first thing to happen. Nothing else happens until that is done. Get up a bit earlier if you have to until the routine is solid.
If he runs off, don't follow or chase. Go about doing something else you need to do to get ready.
Since you aren't saying anything or chasing, after a minute or two, he'll come to you to see what you're doing.
Then you can say, I'm glad that you decided to join me. Then you move back to where the clothes are without further comment. Wait for him to come join you. Then proceed with the rest of the clothes.
Make it fun. Mention covering up his little piggies so they don't get cold. Things like that.

I read that as her example of not using the techniques she normally does, not what she actually does in reality

But he’s not a baby and he can learn.

OP I am not blaming you or your DH.There isn’t always a right answer.

I’m a nursery worker. I am trying to make practical suggestions.
At nursery we had a child with severe autistic behaviour, who was v v difficult at home.
We had to do the fire drill as usual and we knew the noise alone would freak him out, let alone having to leave what he was doing and leave the room.
We did extra fire drills so that he remembered each time. Not no fire drills.

The first time, his key worker carried him thrashing and screaming from the room.
The second time, she carried him sobbing from the room.
The third time, it was me and I carried him with him pressing his face against me.
The fourth time, he walked out holding her hand.

Children can learn. The adults have to be calm and consistent. Giving in isn’t the answer.

I agree, our local pool insists on one to one for under 8s

I think DH was right and the lesson would have been of great value to your son.

What's worse is you failed to stick by your husband's decision. You have to show a common front and support even the wrong decisions. That's the biggest issue. You've taught your son to divide and rule his parents.

You're making a rod for your own back on both counts and I really feel for DH, there's nothing more frustrating that having good parenting undone by the other parent.

Honestly it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

How would your husband have dealt with this if you were working at the office? Would he have kept them both home? Spent a bit more time calming DS1 down then gone?

This is one of those things where it doesn't matter what you do, someone is going to be upset. I think DH should learn better how to deal with things when he's 'alone' (and if you're WFH he should assume he is unless there has been prior conversation) and you should (possibly) follow through a bit more consistently.

Either way I think DS1 has learned a valuable lesson that daddy means business, if you won't do as your told then you might not get to do what you want.

I think you did the right thing and at 3 years old the very real threat of not getting to do something he loved was probably enough.

The fact that he got dressed once they left means that it wasn't a sensory or focus issue he clearly can focus if he wants to.
I would not have called DH back simply because all you've taught ds2 here is that he can scream and throw himself about and this will get him what he wants. That's a dangerous precedent to set in terms of behaviour.
I really feel for you but a short sharp lesson is sometimes necessary. Follow through next time and then when they get home ds2 can have a cuddle with his dad and hopefully lesson learnt.

am not "pandering to him" by making his teddies pretend to talk to persuade him to get dressed,

I did use to make who could get dressed the quickest game or I didn't think they could get dressed by themselves challenge - being very surprised and full of praise when they did - sometime on bad day item by item - and having it all ready to go.

You get them in a routine of getting dressed - what goes first when it happens- then by school which mine were 4 you start expecting them to know what to do - you send them to get dressed remind them that's what they should be doing - they may need a visual list to tick off.

.

Never tried getting their toys to talk to them to persuade them - that sounds very unlikely to work - it's more a distraction from actual task than clear do this task instructions.

He doesn't hold eye contact, he runs away from me time and time again. I keep saying "DS we need to get dressed now" - I don't use any techniques or "pandering" as you call it. What do I do instead?

I had a child come over and their Mum picking them up spend 15 minutes mildly saying get coat and gloves and being ignored by said child.

In end I stepped in with firm voice - which their mother wasn't using - said now coat and gloves having both in my hands ready to go- lessening time to get distracted - child easily complied no argument and went with me when I walked to door as well.

Mother acted like I was amazing doing what I though of by then as basic parenting techniques.

So get attention - so that may mean by in room with door closed and firm voice - have clothes ready to go - they can help with that at 3 - and keep the attention on the task not toys not anything else and give simple clear unambiguous instructions put this on and lots of praise when it'd done and get this to a routine - so it's not a daily fight it's an expectation.

“You have to show a common front and support even the wrong decisions.”

even when (eg) she might need to dial into a meeting but she has been left with a screaming 3yo? I know that wasn’t the main factor in the OP’s decision making but it’s a perfectly good reason to say to the other parent that you can’t support their decision

This!
He understood that the consequence of messing around was that he didn't get to go.
So he changed his behaviour.
All the harsh comments are ridiculous, my old boss was like this.
Zero boundaries and consequences and his DC age 7 and 10 were completely out of control.
By 4/5 when your DC starts school he will be expected to cooperate,get dressed , stand in line etc
Some things are not negotiable, getting dressed, teeth, bedtime , meals
Applying your emotions to this isn't helpful, it's basic parenting.