To be so upset about being left out?

[Jiminycrickets]

Son (12) was really excited to go trick or treating. One of his friend’s Mums started a group chat with the Mums of several kids who live locally, trying to drum up enthusiasm for a local group to head out, I responded enthusiastically, volunteered husband to take the group. Nobody else responded all day. Eventually my (close) friend (who is also a school Mum) responded with a strange cagey non-response. I ended up calling her and she ummed and ahhhed a while before admitting there was a party, that her son and all of the other kids nearby were invited to, with the exception of my son and his friend (whose Mum had started the group chat).

The other child was devastated, too devastated to go out with my son, due to the awkwardness of potentially running into the group, and the mother got angry and ended up blasting the party organiser.

There was no last minute invitation to join the party. My son was left with no one to go with. The party group (of 8 kids) then came and trick or treated MY HOUSE.

What the actual hell? What kind of parent excludes two out of ten kids?! How dare they treat my son like that and then come to take our sweets?!!

AIBU? This is just such an awful way to treat children and neighbours! How could they have not had room for two more to walk in a group?

Im also really feeling betrayed by my friend for not giving me a heads up, I feel embarrassed by my enthusiasm to be met by silence of the “chosen ones”. She should have told me because now I feel like an idiot. And so awkward!

The party organiser also briefly had a Facebook story but then it disappeared, I think she blocked me from the audience. All of the secrecy and weirdness makes me think they knew it would be hurtful.

I just feel sick to go out in my neighbourhood now.
And like I can’t even feel comfortable around my friend.

Is it an overreaction?

Yes, this 100%.

Relational exclusion is a form of bullying and the effects can last a lifetime. Tweens/teens may or may not be aware that they're doing it but it is up to us as parents to teach them that it's not acceptable.

Anyone who thinks that teens are capable of organising their own social life without supervision and guidance is part of the problem. Our kids don't magically move from primary to secondary and develop a whole raft of new skills by magic over some warm sunny nights in the summer. We have to continue to teach them.

People can be so s**t, sorry your son went through this

From the sounds of it the son doesn't give a shit. It's the OP who's gone through it.

Is it possible the boys knocked with the intention of asking him to join them for the street walk bit? They are 12 yr old boys and likely either weren’t aware of the dynamics going on between the mums or were being little shits.

I think your DS has the right attitude and the other excluded child needs to build some resilience.

I think by 12 I’ll be encouraging my DS to organise himself if he still wants to go trick or treating and not setting up WhatsApp’s groups.

I would assume the radio silence and awkwardness was people sitting on their hands waiting for the host mum to extend the invitation. This is far more likely than them all conspiring behind your back.
Completely agree with this. (Although will freely admit that when this has happened to us before, wasn’t quite so rational. Now I can see it wasn’t deliberate.)

You are talking rubbish. My conscience is clear. My DS had this when he was little. He wouldn't get invited to things at times, as I wasn't in the cliques. Even one of his best friend's didn't invite him or should I say the mother didn't as she obviously didn't want us there. I taught him to brush it off, as life is full of shit like that unfortunately. I didn't go ranting and raving and feeling awkward. It's nice as when the kids grow up these types of controlling parents (who want to exclude certain kids based on their friendship cliques), don't have a say in who their kids befriend.

One mother at the school made her poor son's life excruciatingly embarrassing by confronting and berating parents about this type of thing. She was the one who was seeing to it that her son was not being invited to things with her crazy, entitled behaviour.

Children should be taught resilience and not have their parents projecting their own insecurities and weakness onto them - especially when they are not even bothered.

Also, why are the mothers creating what's app groups to organise their secondary school children's social lives? Surely they do it themselves at this age? Their kids are gonna tell them to butt out soon enough, as they are far too involved. It's interesting that both the kids that got left out are the one that seem to have the over-involved parents. Hmmm...

Your friend has been put in an awkward position. It's difficult for some people to be the bearer or bad news, think they don't want to be a trouble maker and/or have others fall out with or leave them out.
People who think like this are thinking of themselves, not you, & are NOT your friend.

If I had been OP's friend, I not only would have told her, I would have challenged the parents who were excluding OP's boy. It doesn't need to be confrontational: "oh! you seem to have left Jiminy & her boy off the chat, do you want to add them or shall I?"
And let the awkward land where it belongs - with the Mean Girl who thought it would be a great wheeze to play nasty neighbourhood games. She would either have to comply, or own her meaness.

@Kissingfrogs25 - it’s awkward if 8 families have an arrangement, then someone else sets up a group including that 8 and two others, and tries to make a new arrangement.

Because “our lads are closer to each other than to your two and have already got plans together,” isn’t something anyone wants to hear.
WhatsApp mother clearly thinks there is a cohesive group of 10 and the boys’ actions show she’s misunderstood how close they are.

It’s not wrong for the 8 to have had a plan, and I do agree 8 is the maximum of pre-teen lads turning up at peoples’ houses en masse (we used to cap it at 6 as some 12 year olds are enormous and can appear intimidating in a big group when you’re used to KS1 kids).

Friendship groups can change so fast at that age, it's best not to get too involved as a parent, as what could have been forgotten and moved on from quickly can become an upset that the DCs find hard to move on from. I've had my own DCs not invited to parties that I really would have expected them to, but I've just accepted that ultimately, if the party person really wanted my DC to be there then they would have been invited, but it doesn't mean the end of the friendship, just that for that event/week/month they weren't as close, but they could (and often did) be closer again and get invited to future events, as the friendship moved on afterwards.

I've also always acknowledged what my DC was feeling about it (I wouldn't minimise their upset) but I would usually always try and end positively with "Well, we'll be having loads of fun here anyway!" and do something a bit special instead. Nothing costly but just looking to boost whatever was going on at home. For example I'd have made more of that at least the other boy was available and focussed on that, had him round for snacks before T&T etc and maybe invited him to stay on for a movie afterwards etc. Look to make more of what is available than what isn't.

The other thing is to get in early with parties, like an informal Christmas get together at yours with pizza, at age 12 they are likely to just be messing around or gaming or whatever (and that's fine) and tell the parents they are welcome to stop by for a glass of something and a mince pie etc as well. Informal social connects here and there.

Wow so much drama, thank Goodness we don't do Halloween

I think this is the point at which they were cruel

You get a party sorted with the Mom's and kids you know. L

Living near each other doesn't automatically mean you get an invite. But when it's clear the Watts app message is the whole party plus two, someone should have said oh sorry, we already have plans. They still don't have to invite you at that point but at least it's honest.

Your Watts app friend could have been kinder to her son tho, and just said everyone but you and Jim have plans so let's go out with him rather than working him up into upset over how he's being excluded.

Equally though is it not important to teach children that they can have agency over who they spend time with? Particularly important for girls I think not to raise them as people pleasers and let them establish boundaries.

When DD was at primary I felt exactly like you. There was a girl in her friendship group who quite frankly was a horror, but I wouldn't have dreamed of leaving her out of things, even when I knew she was causing issues for DD which went on for years. The other mums felt the same about her but we were all very #bekind. If I could have my time again I think I would have encouraged that friendship to dwindle, would've made DD's life far easier.

I hope you gave the trick or treater’s something shitty. I know it’s not the kids fault and the parent shouldn’t have taken them to you, but I would have been like wth and gave them all onions or something, claiming you had no sweeties left.

alternatively, when they arrived at your door you should have gone “oh good your finally here” and put your coats and shoes on and tagged along with their group. There’s no law against walking around outside at the same time as other people.

People are free to invite who they want to their party but them trick or treating at your house is beyond insensitive and cruel.

I'd distance myself and focus on friendships that don't exclude your son.

I'm in a similar situation except my son is 8 and in a group of four. I invited them all to my house for a Halloween party and the other 3 were talking about how the 3 of them had a great Halloween party the night before at one of their houses. My son the only one excluded and they all sat discussing it in front of him! They are 8, so I get they haven't learned the art of sensitivity, but one of the mums also joined in with how great it was 🙄 . My heart breaks for my son. I guess he was excluded as he's the only one with learning disabilities (no behaviour issues, but obviously his face doesn't fit). I'm not investing any more time in that group. It hurts though.

I teach my children to never, ever let anyone feel left out and to be kind, always

Children need to learn that it's fine to say no, it's fine to have boundaries. Teaching them to always be kind is setting them up to be taken advantage of.

Six 12 year olds (not talking about op) out of a class of 16 is not excluding others I am talking about the example upthread, where a poster said a mum contacted her about t/t. It’s a good number to go out, 8 is already pushing it and 10 way too many.

I don’t think a neighbourhood should organise large groups of 11/12+ year olds going out alone. This is asking for trouble as they will start to behave badly or in stupid ways, perhaps even endangering themselves. Parents of older children also have to see this from the POV of the littlies going out with their mums and dads. Large groups of tweens and teens are going to be intimidating.

If a particular child hasn’t found a group to go out with, this is the time for a parent to step in and quietly ask if their dc can join another group or find another child, who would like to go out and also hasn’t found a group. The WhatsApp group in your situation op was using a sledgehammer when a small nudge was required.

You’ve also been asked several times if your ds is still friends and hanging with the group. I know you said he is with one out of the 8.

I'm sorry you're upset. As the parent of much older children (think 30s), I can tell you this happens all the time across school, sports activities, teenage parties etcetc. All you can do is be resilient, understand you don't know the whole story (there may be a particular incident, personality clash, numbers issue that you know nothing about), and teach your children that everyone has different priorities. One day, sadly, you may be the 'excluder' because your child can't stand the class oddball/bully/over competitive /rowdy child. At that point you can 'question' their decision, but ultimately you have to let them have the autonomy to choose their own friends. Much as we do as adults.

And I imagine that the group of 12 year olds, unaccompanied, probably had no idea it was your house they were knocking at; I honestly don't believe they did it to 'taunt' you or your child.

Your child seems to have dealt with it really well - clearly evidence that you've brought up a well balanced, sensible person.

@PlainJaneSuperBrain99 It was really rude of the parents to accept your hospitality and leave your ds out from the party the night before. 😔

People like you make things a million times worse for your kids. Huge egos, so pathetic and weird quite frankly.

Tagging along with secondary school kids WTAF 🤣.

There are parents in my DS's teen friendship group who hate each other and fell out with each other after our children had squabbles and bust ups etc. The children are ALL friends now and have matured but the parents still don't talk to each other!

The teens are more grown up than the parents half the time.

I am not sure why you have taken my general post so very personally. I was not talking about anyone in particular, so it is interesting that you are being so defensive and stating your conscience is clear?!
I wouldn't feel the need to defend my conscience for instance..

If you are raising tough, hard nosed kids then maybe this would seem like a very valuable lesson in a life of hard knocks. However, if your children are growing up in a friendly environment then teaching inclusivity, empathy and kindness is a wonderful way to raise children. They grow up feeling secure, cared for and valued in their friendship circles without all the cloak and dagger stuff. They grow up to expect good behaviour and kindness and tend to weed out the rotten ones quickly.

Op this is part of a process where your son will now gradually start choosing his friends with more care, and in my experience if he is a lovely person he will probably want to avoid the drama of that particular group anyway, and choose better friends. I would see it as a blessing. Most likely the group will be the same ones up to no good in three years time if this is how they are at twelve. You might come to see this moment as a valuable crossroads.

I suppose it would depend on what way she was being a horror, but if she was bullying all the other children, then that goes beyond being invited to a party or not and becomes an issue for the school to work on with the child and the parent.

My oldest is at secondary school now (the other 2 are 7/9) and i still very much communicate with her about who's being invited to parties etc, but of course as they get older the friend groups are very much more defined and so it's far easier. She wants all her friends to be at her parties and i would never choose an activity for them to do which meant that they couldn't all do it.

Teaching empathy and how to treat others well is not raising them as people pleasers - it's raising them to learn how to manage conflict, how to get on with all and realising that sometimes you have to go out of your way for others and that not everything is always about you and your feelings.

I know that there are children at my oldest daughter's school that don't have so many friends and they are not naturally people that my daughter is drawn to - i will always encourage my daughter to include her in group activities at school and encourage them to join in.

As an adult, we do a lot of parties and dinners and in my friend group, there are some that i'm not naturally drawn to, but i wouldn't dream of leaving them out either. The thought that my actions might cause someone else to feel upset and excluded is horrible.

As i say, friend issues are very rare in our household, all 3 have strong friendships, are confident and well adjusted and have won various awards at school for being inclusive, considerate etc etc - that's not a co incidence in my opinion.

I MIGHT have gone a little too far when my youngest was in Reception and i invited every 32 children in her class, plus some in the other class (that she was with in nursery) and siblings. I think we had about 40 children in the garden, it was carnage!!!!!

Some mums(/people) are just absolute cunts sadly (id hazard a guess at around 11% of the population based on this thread). Power from a clique and being hurtful to kids is obviously how they feel good about themselves 🙅🏻‍♀️

You can have refined and robust boundaries and be able to manage your relationships without resorting to power play and exclusion.

They are 12. There is no mean girl. The unfortunately OPs son and the other boy just aren't in their friendship group. The muns should no longer be involving themselves. If you said that to me I'd just say that the boys handle the list and they haven't invited them.

Teaching your child to say No and to have boundaries is a different situation entirely to teaching them empathy.