To not understand the nastiness that being a housewife provokes 2

[Alondra]

Apologies for making a second part to this thread but I feel strongly about this issue.

Topgub

Possibly because there aren't any benefits

Few countries have a government system caring about women and children. The majority of our governments don't care if all have to work for a pittance to pay mortgage, bills and food when children are small because average couples need both wages. A system where nursery fees are stratospheric and eating half an average wage, and worse still, because parents working full time, making an average pay to be able to survive, have few serious tax concessions. Those tax concessions go to multinationals.

It's a system that only cares about productivity attached to $. If you are an engineer with projects worth a million dollars, your salary will be minimum 15% of that money annually. If you are a carer or a parent, there is no quoted money attached to your work, so you are in a low wage or no wage at all.

A woman with two kids working full time for an average salary has not gained much from my mother’s time. Working full time, taking care of the kids when they are home and doing the lion share of housework and rarely free time at all.

With housing costs, bills and health systems collapsing, I really fear for women in the next few years. We will get the short straw as we've always done, but it'll be a plus if, at least, we don't turn on each other.

The idea that women who want to work are outliers just shows how deeply sexist you are

No female mps. Or lawyers, doctors, nurses, teachers. No female scientists r researchers or inventors. No female authors or artists or female CEOs

No women in key roles in society

Just the odd outlier.

Some greater good that is

I do plenty outside of my husband and kids- I don't know why some here think SAHMs don't. I've said repeatedly one of the best parts about it is having the time and freedom to follow my own interests

@AMorningstar

Yeah thought not.

You know discussing racism highlights the ridiculousness of your arguments.

Just like you got 'bored' when it was pointed out thar dads deserve equal time with their kids

Where have I said no women? I think the majority of women, if they could afford it, would prefer to be SAHMs or do part time work. Actually, I'll change that - the majority of mothers. Some women don't want kids and that's fine.

If you think that's sexist then fine. 🤷🏻‍♀️

No, its that I'm not black or a person of colour and I don't feel comfortable talking about an issue that I don't personally experience. If you ask him nicely my DH might be willing to engage you in a conversation on it though.

I replied to you about dads and kids...

@zeven

Do you think children of working parents are harmed?

We're your children harmed by their dad working?

I'm quite sure my kids would rather stay at home than go to school, but they go because it's good for them and has benefits they don't get at home

The only thing a sahm achieves is promoting the career of her male oh.

That's not benefiting society.

Would I have to call him sir or daddy?

That is what I said! 👍

And given that your excuse is you're not a person of colour so can't discuss both, as he isn't female, neither can he

And I already know his views on sexism

Weird way to talk about someone else's husband, do you usually talk to married men like that?

Topgub - a society in which children are routinely with childminders / nannies for most of their waking hours is, in my view, very depressing. It's not a society I want to see. Not at all. I have to be honest.

You want to discuss racism, right? If you want to specifically discuss the intersection of racism and sexism perhaps find some women of colour who wish to discuss it with you. You'll find there are multiple opinions among them.

Also it's hilarious you think he's sexist solely because im a SAHM. What should he have done, forced me into a job I didn't want?

I find that depressing too. I don't know why you'd have kids if you want that - I'm not talking about people who don't have a choice but holding it up as the ideal doesn't seem pleasant.

@AMorningstar

No.

I dont want to discuss racism. I'm not black or a woc.

However you using it as a shield to prevent you acknowledging that institutional sexism is not a cop out for women is pretty poor.

You said previously he shared your values

Your values are sexist. So his must be too.

@zeven

Could you answer my questions?

No one said a society where all children spend all their waking hours was what they wanted.

Interesting that its what you presume though.

Some sexism is just too deeply ingrained huh.

You seem to see childrearing as second rate compared to a career. As seen in language like "give up". I think it's an honour and very much a wonderful thing to do.

I don't think anyone here has said women should have to give up work.

If the choice was my career being put on hold (even jeopardised) and my child's happiness, I would prioritise my child's happiness every time. Absolutely.

@zeven

Your oh didn't.

You're using it as a strawman, which is pretty disingenuous towards people of colour in general.

Our values are for us. We do not force them on others or presume they're right for everyone, unlike you.

I'm not even sure why you consider that the 2 options.

I have a career and happy kids

@AMorningstar

Yeah that's demonstrably not true

Also, not a strawman

At best a false equivalency.

In reality an analogy that you cant counter

Unless you have family nearby there is no choice. How do you propose bills to be paid? Children to be fed? I doubt children of that age will remember much of their fun days there.

Plus don't you think it hypocritical to have that viewpoint of children being better off with mum when you are spending so much time on here?