To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?

[JudesBiggestFan]

But I don't know what? More than 900 people landed in Dover today, as I discovered when reading about the terrible petrol bomb attack on a detention centre. Detention centres overcrowded, more than 7 million pounds a day being spent on hotel rooms for illegal immigrants, horrendously slow processing of applications...people drowning in the channel and local people feeling angry and frustrated because of the strain on services. Not to mention the mental health toll on people living their lives in limbo! So what is the answer? Because I just don't know anymore but it feels like the system has completely broken down.

Part of the (hearts-and-minds) issue is that the conversation usually divides people into "genuine asylum-seekers with heartbreaking stories fleeing terror and persecution" and "cynical cold-hearted economic migrants who are just out to make a buck".

Someone who literally has no money or resources to feed their starving child, who travels to another country in desperation, who goes through any amount of heartbreaking trauma on the journey, is still an "economic migrant". An "asylum seeker" is literally anyone who asks for it. These definitions aren't objective and clear-cut.

Hard decisions have to be made.

The vast majority of the world lives in conditions we'd consider inhumane.

Part of the (legal) issue is that the conventions ("international law", which is just agreements between countries which can be changed, not divine command) that apply were written in a completely different context, when travel was much more difficult, and the concept of "human rights violations" much more narrow.

@notmyrealmoniker what are the “legal routes into the country to seek asylum”?

There’s the Ukraine visa, two schemes for Afghanistan… and that’s it. If you want to claim asylum in the UK, you have to present yourself in the UK. Sorry for the shouty bold, but that has already been covered in this thread multiple times.

Also please see my previous post re France. I don’t wrote them for them to be ignored, and it does seem like it would answer at least one of your questions. 😉

All of this

You think breaching international law is right for the country?

We spent centuries imparting our language and culture all over the world, it's little wonder here is where desperate people want to be.

At the moment a lot of the people crossing the channel are young men from Albania who are probably being trafficked here for all the wrong reasons. Albania is a Mediterranean country with a small but growing tourist industry. It is not unsafe in the sense that Syria is. There is no real need for any Albanian to cross Europe and seek asylum in the UK. But there are Albanian criminal gangs operating here. Unfortunately our legal system seems to have no short cut way of saying:

1. Syrian - provision asylum granted pending a proper investigation. Please go and get a job and pay your own way while we review your case in detail.
2. Albanian - sorry, your country is not on our list at the moment so we will not consider your application. Bye!

I doubt most people would risk life and limb and those of their children to cross a large body of water on a flimsy wooden boat if what they were fleeing wasn't worse than the risk of death. The UK has significantly cut their aid budget in the last few years. We also accept a far smaller number of refugees than other similar sized European countries. Many of those arriving are fleeing war and famine but it seems that the welcome for Afghani refugees fleeing something created by the West, was completely different to that of Ukranian refugees. Both fleeing war and murder. Until we start seeing all refugees and "illegal" immigrants the same, nothing will change. There is no legal way to enter the country and seek asylum. If there was, I'm sure more people would do this. And why is there so much digust for economic migrants? Do we turn our noses up at doctors, nurses, lecturers etc moving into the UK to work and earn more money? Why is it that when non professionals aspire to improve their lives it causes such disdain?

Mine is a really unpopular opinion, but is nevertheless true. This country needs immigration. We are an aging population, we need young people coming into this country. Just look at the number of job vacancies and the number of people who are registered as unemployed. Vacancies far outweigh the number of people able to take up the jobs.

They have been making noises about encouraging people to take in migrants who are not Ukrainian. Some people may well be up for it, I don't know. However, the hotel bill is enormous and I am sure that the last time I stayed at a Holiday Inn, many of the other guests were more like residents rather than holiday makers.

@Genevieva re “no real need” for Albanians to seek asylum here, please read my post up read re the trafficking and sexual exploitation of Albanian young people.

I've always wondered why a genuine Asylum seeker would destroy all their documents and I.D arriving in this country. Why is it that 1-2% of the male population from Albania has arrived here in the UK illegally, claiming asylum? The system is broken and bringing taken advantage of. Where are the women and children? Or do the men just leave them behind to find a better life for themselves and send money home - or not.

The Home Affairs Committee was told that "one to two percent" of the entire male population of Albania - around 10,000 men - arrived on small boats this year alone.

I keep hearing how we need immigration and how asylum seekers come here because they speak and the language and many are highly skilled.

Are there stats on this? Do they gather data when people state they are claiming asylum?

My worry is that what we're told does at match reality. My local council now spends almost all of their adult education budget on teaching AS English. One council I know but I would be interested to see the claim about language tested.

Secondly we hear they all want to work and it's great as we need workers. From what I can gather the majority are young men - are they really going to work in care homes for example and do we want them to? I expect many are unqualified so will get nmw jobs and then need loads of top ups in UC - ie they won't be net contributors. Do we have sight of how many are skilled/qualified and be able actively contribute?

I think there's a massive difference between those choosing to come her with skills and those entering via small boats. I'm worried about all these young men who arrive via this illegal route and frankly, given cultural differences, I'm don't think it's positive for the country.

So you think all these young men (because let’s be honest, 95% of them are young men) already have family over here waiting for them to come here? They really don’t. A very small minority might have, but the reality is that most of these men have abandoned their families to come here to start a new life.

Often the men get split up from the women and children. Because they do most the journey on foot The women and children go on the buses. Because they have to pay the traffickers more . Notice there's never any elderly. It's because they know they won't make the journey.

@TheHumanExperience Reposting this as you seem to have missed it.

Yanbu.

It is a problem that will grow worse and worse with war and climate change and threatens to completely derail countries that are currently stable. It's frightening.

Yes they will not want to work in care homes in all honesty

Also we have a recession and cost of living crisis so people are tightening their belts

That's not true at all that's what the media show's you in the likes of the Daily mail.

@TheHumanExperience Why do you assume they have documents in the first place? Not every country is a middle class “driving licence & passport owning” documental utopia.

(I’m working and can’t afford to renew my sodding passport. If I had to flee anywhere I’d be fucked.)

Whatever the needs of some of those people coming here we cannot as a nation continue to afford it.

There is no legal route into the country to claim asylum. You have to get here first in order to claim. They are following the legal process

@BewareTheLibrarians Granting asylum and letting them back into the hands of the criminal gangs who trafficked them here is no solution. We need to not grant asylum and make sure that we cooperate with the EU to improve the situation in Albania. Although it is not an EU country, it is on our doorstep and needs funding comparable to what Poland received when it first joined the EU. Opportunities at home are the only way to break the system. It is the same with a lot of the migration across the Med. Some of it is asylum, but much is escaping poverty and some is part of an organised human trafficking exercise. Without investment in Africa so that there are high quality jobs there, the waves of people seeking opportunity will continue. It is natural to see a mirage of hope elsewhere and be naïve about what they are getting themselves into. But these are longterm solutions. They don't cut our government spending or the safety of the busiest shipping lane in the world now. Goodness knows how many little boats have sunk without a trace. It doesn't bear thinking about.

@BewareTheLibrarians @Myunclesmustache Well aware of that thank you. How does it support the points in your post?

You said my last point was wrong.

I am showing you that it wasn't

Has to be both, I am personally aware of a fair few coming in illegally and declaring themselves as asylum seekers, despite meeting the criteria and completely lying and getting accepted that way, it's not on. Plus those who are out of time on their visa's and the Home Office are obviously not aware or checking things to then catch those people.
Various circumstances where women are being used to do visa's for these guys.