To think that something has to be done about the immigration crisis?

[JudesBiggestFan]

But I don't know what? More than 900 people landed in Dover today, as I discovered when reading about the terrible petrol bomb attack on a detention centre. Detention centres overcrowded, more than 7 million pounds a day being spent on hotel rooms for illegal immigrants, horrendously slow processing of applications...people drowning in the channel and local people feeling angry and frustrated because of the strain on services. Not to mention the mental health toll on people living their lives in limbo! So what is the answer? Because I just don't know anymore but it feels like the system has completely broken down.

As usual this is turning into a topic which cannot be rationally discussed despite it being a serious issue from all angles. Even bringing the subject up gets one accused of bigotry and god help someone if their view differs from that of the liberal left. Until we have a proper debate from all sides nothing will be done.

I know this has been said a million times. They’re fleeing (allegedly) persecution in their countries of origin. They want to find a safe place, obviously. Why do they cross through several safe countries, and accross the channel to the U.K.? Stay in the first safe country. Claim asylum there. Otherwise they’re economic migrants, and we can’t home people already here. We can’t treat people adequately on the NHS who are here, and we don’t have enough school places for the children already here. I don’t want my taxes raised to support these economic migrants. End of.

Anyone who arrives here having not done so legally should be immediately deported.

But you don't know if they are a legal asylum seeker or not until their claim has been processed. The UK processing system I underfunded so takes ages.

Genuine asylum seekers are arriving via illegal routes because the legal routes are not there. If the government set up a humanitarian visa scheme, asylum applications could be processed in the country of origin and those granted asylum could travel via a safe and legal route. However, the UK government won't do this so asylum seekers are forced to travel illegally.

YABU

If their asylum claim is accepted then they have every right to be here. And until it is processed, they have every right to be here too.

In terms of my solution, (not sure why I have to give one, I’m not the Home Secretary) would be to reinstate an anti-slavery commissioner to crack down on the trafficking and exploitation of young people, and increase funding for the police to be able to effectively crack down on this in the community. (Unfucking the asylum system so claims are processed within weeks would save millions on hotels to red up funding on this.)

We should be ashamed that cannabis farms and prostitution is so unregulated that it’s a massive pull for criminal gangs.

(Also something diplomatic to get the Albanian government to get its act together to protect its own children but no idea how that would work.)

? Did you mean to direct that at me

ive never said anything about a limit

I don’t think we should limit asylum seekers.

Yes I said if no limit how many do you think will want to be here? In your mind how many people are accommodated

Nobody would bother to apply for asylum from their own country if the chance of rejection/staying on after arriving here is lower. Many of the rejectees do not leave, they simply vanish into the black economy. Other European countries do have larger numbers in camps but those people are endeavouring to ultimately come here. My French friends are genuinely laughing at the dilemma that we face (I know 🙄)
The only way it may peter out is if it becomes shit as in truly shit to come here for economic reasons. We are heading that way.
The other thing to note is that these huge numbers have exploded in the last couple of years. DM reader may have been groaning about it for years but it was barely a problem back then.
The other way would be to implement truly Draconian measures and find a way to circumvent the higher international rules.
It is really grim. We are an island so if they want to come (which they obviously do) then the notion of toughening borders is unadulterated BS.

They’re not economic migrants for traveling through safe countries. They don’t have to stop in the first safe country, they most likely have family here.

The ignorance on this thread is astounding, no wonder vote leave had such an easy time fooling the masses with limited intelligence such as this being common.

😂😂😂

How to claim asylum

www.gov.uk/claim-asylum

To be eligible you must have left your country and be unable to go back because you fear persecution.

You should apply when you arrive in the UK or as soon as you think it would be unsafe for you to return to your own country. Your application is more likely to be denied if you wait.

Your claim might not be considered if you:
are from an EU country
travelled to the UK through a ‘safe third country’
have a connection to a safe third country where you could claim asylum

Generally, a safe third country is one that:
you’re not a citizen of
you would not be harmed in
would not send you on to another country where you would be harmed

You may be sent to a safe country that will consider your asylum claim. This might happen if you’ve travelled to the UK through a safe third country or you have a connection with another country that you could claim asylum in.

So reading this

You must apply from a country that is not your home country. Your claim may not be considered if you come from an EU country or travelled to the UK via a safe country and you may be sent to a safe country that will consider you asylum claim.

If I was in Syria, I guess that I could go to Turkey, but then I guess that's a safe country so it might not get considered so I would have to fly from Syria to the UK to claim asylum. Difficult to do that for some people

There currently isn’t a limit

so about the same as we have now

@BewareTheLibrarians Which 'claims' do you wish to challenge?

All of them, given that the last one was so completely wrong.

See the definitions given by UNHCR/uk here

www.unhcr.org/uk/news/latest/2016/7/55df0e556/unhcr-viewpoint-refugee-migrant-right.html

Specifically para 3 -
Refugees are persons fleeing armed conflict or persecution. There were 21.3 million of them worldwide at the end of 2015. Their situation is often so perilous and intolerable that they cross national borders to seek safety in nearby countries, and thus become internationally recognized as "refugees" with access to assistance from States, UNHCR, and other organizations. They are so recognized precisely because it is too dangerous for them to return home, and they need sanctuary elsewhere. These are people for whom denial of asylum has potentially deadly consequences.

Write to your local MP and raise your concerns if you’re that bothered. Making a thread on Mumsnet isn’t going to do jack shit, it’ll just rile people up and you’ll get the same debate of “asylum seekers Vs illegal immigrant”.

Do something productive. This thread isn’t productive.

No. The problem is people spouting off things like “illegal immigrant” and “economic migrant” and “France/Albania isn’t a war zone” without even bothering to check their facts beforehand. Google is right there, and often quicker than writing a nonsensical post on mumsnet.

That’s the problem. Not “lefty” bollocks. It’s people who don’t know the facts and don’t bother to check spouting off as if they did. Unless Google’s only available to the left wing and nobody told me?

This topic is always accompanied by accusations of racism, bigotry, etc, etc, with people pointing to the welcome given to Ukrainian refugees, as an example
of double standards. IMHO, a real reason for much of the backlash is that many people photographed on boats are men in their 20s and 30s, making the public question how vulnerable these people are.

A legal route focusing on the most vulnerable, particularly Women and Children, would be more easily welcomed and accepted. The route should be accessible by those in identified refugee camps, etc.

Wouldn’t ID cards help deter economic migrants - if done well, it seems like a sensible solution (and may also help fight modern slavery), but I have no idea why it isn’t a more frequently proposed solution. Am I missing an obvious flaw?

semantics doesn't alter the fact these people have not followed legal routes into the country to seek asylum, unless they are seeking asylum from France? They are financing a people smuggling system which uses organised crime and also is involved in crime, prostitution and drugs. Lets continue to allow this and let the criminals grow richer, more powerful and destroy more communities.

Its a bigger problem than a few people on a boat.

@Myunclesmustache Well aware of that thank you. How does it support the points in your post?

Exactly this they must be pretty desperate to do that. I seen a Facebook post today a friend is raising money for a school in Nigeria. Because they need to put up security fencing. To prevent the children being kidnapped for ransom. It's a basic human right to send your child to school and know they will be safe. The sçhool has also suffered storm damage.

What is “wokerati”?

So crossing treacherous water isn’t imposing a limit of a kind

If you take that part away and change it to safe crossing would the numbers increase?

Friend of a friend is on new next week as they had a wedding booked - the hotel has been cancelled with 2 weeks notice as it's now going to be hosting asylum seekers / immigrants.

One of the hotels rang police a few weeks ago to say one of their "guests" has over £700 worth of shoplifted goods in his room .

Another spent his money , rang and remanded more and when told he had had his money he said he would take a knife to the streets and stab people until he got more
Money .
These are my first hand experiences btw , not hearsay .
It's crazy .

For the 90000th time

THERE ARE NO LEGAL ROUTES TO ASYLUM UNTIL THEY ARRIVE IN THE UK

Do you have any clue what conditions Afghani refugees are being accommodated in?

Even going back to WW2, do you realise that the UK interred Jewish refugees?

I'm not so sure we've always treated those seeking refugees or asylum well. Even those encouraged here, have always been treated as equals. Think of the Windrush generation.

The solution is that there is no solution. It is a failure of our power structure that we have unfilled vacancies in so many sectors to the extent that it has now become dangerous but we cannot design a way to match young, able-bodied migrants to the jobs in social care and restaurants without wasting years and years and millions of pounds. It would reduce their state dependency for a start, encourage them to integrate outside of their own community and improve their self esteem.