To think that medical professionals should not be cutting off the breasts of teenage girls?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

twitter.com/ChoooCole/status/1586016843088601088?s=20&t=oQb2o7XLCvcTpf-dGzhBIw

"My breasts were beautiful, now they’ve been incinerated for nothing. Thank you, modern medicine.”

Chloe Cole's story is heartbreaking.

AIBU to think that this is medical abuse and that we should not be doing this to children?

It's appalling.

No child can consent to this. Legally they can't get a tattoo, or get married, or have sex, or work more than 6 hours a week in termtime or whatever but get a double mastectomy - sure!

The NHS won't fund sterilisation for adult women who already have children. But sterilising actual children? Yippee.

Why do we throw all the safeguards out of the window when it comes to this group of children?

YANBU it is child abuse

Puberty blockers are a completely different ball game. The justification for their use is to DELAY decisions being made. Contrary to the OPs anxiety about decisions being made for children. But that bit of logic wouldn't suit your agenda would it?

Puberty blockers aren’t the benign “completely reversible, pause button” they were initially sold as though, are they? This is reflected by the NHS updating its website to state that the long term effects are unknown.

They work by completely turning off the body’s ability to make LH/FSH from the pituitary gland in the brain. These normally stimulate the ovaries or testes.

They have been used for children who go through puberty too early to halt things for a while, and this has been extrapolated by TRAs to say, “They’ve been used safely for decades,”.

But they haven’t in this context, have they? Not to stop children going through puberty at a normal age and to block puberty at the normal time. If they work like they are supposed to, the child will grow (from growth hormone) but their pubertal development will be frozen for years.

how is this a pause? There’s no pubertal brain development, no physiological maturity, the child’s genitals are those of a primary school child while their high school peers are becoming sexually mature. 99% of these children progress to cross sex hormones, not because they have carefully reflected, but because they are already well down the trans path as soon as they’ve had their first puberty blocking injection.

By the end of their teen years, boys who had blockers at the very first signs of puberty followed by exogenous estrogen will have breasts and “pass” but they will have the genitals of an essentially prepubertal boy, will not be able to orgasm and will be sterile. Girls who received testosterone after blockers will have permanent clitoromegaly , permanent body hair and deep voices.

What happens when these children reach their 20s and change their minds? If they stop cross sex hormones will they then go through their natural puberty? Will their fertility return?

The scary part is that no one knows.

I know 2 young women who had double mastectomies. I dont know exactly how old they were when the operations were carried out but if they were 18 it was soon after and planned before that. They were started on the pathway by being given puberty blockers when both needed support for their other issues.

Whether this is happening here or not the care being given to children in this country is a disgrace to the medical profession.

Exactly nolongersurprised and the new NHS guidance say that because of all this, puberty blockers can now only be used if part of a research trial with a strict protocol in place.

It’s also worth noting that Freddy McConnell, trans man and known trans activist, had a mastectomy in Freddy’s late 20s and was shocked to discover 7 years later after giving birth that breastfeeding would be a problem.

That’s someone who was seemingly of a mature age and an activist campaigner who still didn’t understand the implications of a bilateral mastectomy. So how a teenager is supposed to is beyond me.

The parents are as much to blame as the doctors for pandering to this nonsense.

But when their daughter is distressed and this distress has been refracted through a trans lens all “solutions” will equal hormones/surgery.

Many psychologists, social workers, teachers and doctors are true believers and if you’re repeatedly told “better a trans son than a dead daughter” you’d have to be a confident and strong parent to withstand the pressure.

If one of my daughters had come out with this nonsense at that age they would have been told to stop being so stupid and grow up.
Not pandered to.

If one of my daughters had come out with this nonsense at that age they would have been told to stop being so stupid and grow up.
Not pandered to.

I think part of the problem is that a large proportion of girls and boys who identify as trans have other issues going on, this formed part of the findings of the Cass Review I think.

If you have a daughter who is autistic and who is struggling with mental health and anxiety issues and perhaps has expressed self harm/ suicide intentions anyway and a health advisor / mermaids (who you ought to be able to trust as a Kids Charity) tells you that you should affirm of they might kill themselves. Then as a parent you would do almost anything to help your distressed child.

I still wouldn't subscribe to it.
If she's time to sit around thinking about that nonsense then she's time to get busy helping in the house.

I still wouldn't subscribe to it
If she's time to sit around thinking about that nonsense then she's time to get busy helping in the house.

I'm lucky that my autistic teen doesn't identify as trans but with autistic children with co-morbid mental health issues it's really not that simple.

Parents are often desperate to get their children support with their mental health. If professionals are saying that this will help them the parents will listen to the professionals. CAMHS have, until recently (I'm not sure if they still do) signposted to GIDS. What you are effectively asking is for parents to refuse the support their children are being offered.

it's really sad. But it really is not fixed by giving them extra chores around the house.

No child can consent to this. Legally they can't get a tattoo, or get married, or have sex, or work more than 6 hours a week in termtime or whatever but get a double mastectomy - sure!

I agree!

America has even higher age limits than the UK, yet don’t think this is an issue?

Nothing that’s irreversible should be done to anyone that can’t fully consent - a child, someone with MH issues, an alcoholic etc.

Teens are known for having body image issues.
The answer should never be to just change it, as they’ll have issues with another part of their body and will never accept themselves.

YANBU. A dreadful 'medical ' scandal.

There are many groups lobbying to lower the age that these procedures can go ahead in the UK.

Also my care for children does not stop at the UK borders.

My 13 year old daughter wants her breasts cut off. Because I am against this idea, she has moved out to live with her dad who supports it. Surprise surprise as he is a misogynistic POS who mentally and physically abused me.

I've spoken to her school, ss and cahms who all tell me I should be affirming her as a "boy".

Yes it is a scandal. A scandal I have absolutely no power to object to.

My heart is broken.

Oh and the reason she is doing this? She came out as a lesbian at age 11 and was mercilessly bullied at school. Now she is a brave and stunning trans boy.

So sorry to read this.

You should present school, CAMHS and Social Services with the latest proposed NHS guidance released last week which states social affirmation is not always in a child’s best interests and backs up your perfectly valid opinion on how best to manage your own child. They are behind the ball.

https://www.engage.england.nhs.uk/specialised-commissioning/gender-dysphoria-services/

Why would you want to have a pregnancy as a transman? Surely that's the most womanly feeling possible, all those female hormones needed to make it successful?

archive.ph/pM264

More than 50 transgender boys under the age of 18 have been approved for double mastectomies in Scotland, it has been revealed.

The figures, released under freedom of information, have been seized upon by a campaign group to argue against Scottish government plans to lower the age at which people can legally change their gender to 16.
Fifty-one teenagers aged 16 and 17 who were born as females were sent to hospitals in England to undergo further assessment for “specialist chest reconstruction” over the past six years, The Telegraph reported. In theory, those as young as 17 can undergo the procedure, and children aged 16 have been “referred for assessment for surgery”.

For Women Scotland, a campaign group opposed to gender reforms that would make it easier for trans people to choose their own gender without a medical certificate, accused the NHS of attempting to cover up the extent of the practice, after it initially claimed no one under 18 had been approved.
Trans rights campaigners have said it is important for young people to be able to access “timely” medical interventions, such as puberty blockers, and are pushing for gender reassignment surgery to become available in Scotland. Trina Budge, director of For Women Scotland, said: “No physically healthy child should ever be locked into a pathway of puberty-blocking drugs and wrong-sex hormones, leading to the removal of breasts at the age of 16.

“Lowering the age at which gender can be changed to 16 will inevitably open the floodgates for many more teenagers to request elective surgeries to match their new legal status.”
A Scottish government consultation on changing the rules found that 56 per cent of 17,000 respondents backed lowering the age at which it is possible to legally change gender to 16, with 42 per cent opposed. The Scottish Catholic Church argued in its submission that people were being allowed to make irreversible decisions about their bodies before they were allowed to buy cigarettes, alcohol or be tattooed.
A Scottish government spokesman said: “A small number of young adults have been referred for chest reconstruction surgery at 17. However, further assessments required prior to surgery mean that, in practice, it is unlikely the procedure would take place before an individual is 18. Gender reassignment surgery is a specialised field primarily carried out under a four nations contract managed by NHS England.”

So if they lower the GRC to 16 presumably mastectomy age will be the next thing to drop? Also if they are having referrals for this to happen at younger ages - where it's being talked about as the treatment path, doesn't that mean they are then chest binding at younger ages? And that they then feel that the surgery is inevitable?

"A Scottish government spokesman said: “A small number of young adults have been referred for chest reconstruction surgery at 17"

No one is an adult at 17. So does this mean they operated on 17 year olds? Foggy language indeed.

It's unfair to be too critical of the parents who are frequently subjected to a lot of pressure from others - teachers, social workers, so called "support groups", even the doctors at the Tavistock. The "better a live son than a dead daughter" line is frequently peddled at people who dont know it is untrue and dont know where to turn to help their child.

These poor children have their physical health ruined when previously they would have often grown into healthy, happy young lesbians.

I agree - imagine being told this. You'd be terrified.