Aibu to be angry about this - dd left out group/party

[Lago1]

So a bit of background, my daughter is a lovely, yet shy and reserved child, who has been dancing for a few years with a group of girls and has grown in confidence around them. One particular girl, she sees as a good friend and they share another hobby which they do weekly together. This morning at dancing she hears some of the others discussing a sleepover and asked in front of the mum if she can join and the mum says of course. She comes home excited and gets her things ready, then I received a text 15 minutes before I was due to drop her off saying I'm sorry dd doesn't want her to come. Now I know maybe she shouldn't have asked but it was nice to see her confidence and she would have not even considered that her friend didn't want her there and probably thought of it as an oversight. There were no excuses made, and not even any effort to try and protect her feelings in this all. I am so sad for her. Aibu to feel really pissed off?

Don't worry, there is a bit of classic MN parallel-universe logic going on in this thread. Obviously what this girl and her mum did to your DD isn't nice or normal, as reinforced by people you know in real life.

It’s also worth noting that 12 year olds missed a lot of the normal move to negotiating social lives away from their parents due to covid.

but it’s good you can have a chat about it, sometimes you have to learn social lessons the hard way. I guess she won’t invite herself again.

A lot of posters confuse rudeness/selfishness with assertiveness. They're not the same thing.

Totally agree.

But then it is often in the eye of the beholder. Someone can be perceived as rude by one person and assertive by another.

I can't believe some people on here think it's OK to bluntly tell someone who has done nothing harmful that they're just not wanted.

You don't really know what the DD or the others have done or said to each other, though. We have one person's take on the situation. Many people have suggested that there is likely a lot more going on than the OP has seen.

People haven't said it's OK to bluntly tell someone they're not wanted. Many have suggested other ways it could have been better handled. They've suggested that maybe the OP being angry isn't justified, whilst agreeing that they'd feel hurt and disappointed too.

Both children are 12 and learning to navigate social situations. We don't know how lovely or not-lovely either girl is - they might both be lovely but not particularly close, and had miscommunications or misunderstandings. Or perhaps they're both a bit difficult and awkward at communication and say things that don't come out as they intend. We don't really know at all. It might not be that the OP's DD is the lovely one who needs to find much nicer friends. Maybe she just needs friends that she clicks with more, maybe both sides need practice navigating social situations and reading social cues etc.

I don't think you need a psychology degree to know that if you haven't been invited to something, it's not appropriate to try to invite yourself. Why did your DD ask the girl's mum and not the girl herself? Do you think she might have been aware that the girl didn't want to invite her and was trying to get around it?

I agree.

But some people have voiced the opinion that it is better to tell someone they are not wanted than to ask someone to include someone who has asked to be included.

Pretty nasty in my opinion and not a good lesson to teach. Where does it stop?

@glassfully she asked in front of a couple of kids and parent as they were speaking about it. I apologised for her asking, checked it was okay.
If you were at work and colleagues were talking about going for a drink after would it be completely rude to say mind if I tag along? Slightly different as it's their house I suppose but I don't think it's a clear cut rudeness, more that different people will have different opinions on it (evidently)

I know you don’t think DD asking if she could go is the key issue but it ultimately created the problem of her needing to be ‘uninvited’.
yes- the mother could have said no initially (awkward) but then probably had the tricky convo trying to persuade her DD to accept the situation with the DD saying “but I didn’t invite her for X, Y, Z reason’. If I were that mother I’d probably have done the same (though would have liked to give more than 15 minutes notice).

I had to ‘uninvite’ a 6 year old to a birthday party as my DD was worried he’d hurt her friends (he’s a bit rough). Tricky- but essential to show DD that she doesn’t always need to be the accommodating one (she usually is).

But it is different because they are adults. You can put on a friendly face around someone you don't particularly get along with or want around you for a few hours.

Children can't do this. At my daughters 12th birthday party last week I couldn't believe how much bickering there was around a group of 8 girls.

I'm not saying this is the case but what I would suspect is that the other child could of been worried that your dds presence could of caused something different to what they had planned. I'm not putting your daughter down here at all. She seems to have handled the situation well by what you've said.

It's just something I've seen with my dds. Quite often I've found that groups of girls exclude others. There's always a reason behind it, most of the time its petty. My daughter once didn't get invited to something because she was the only one that didn't have Tik Tok. Ridiculous but equally i wouldn't of wanted my daughter there if she's not welcome. I don't think it's fair on anyone.

The majority of kids will feel left out at some point. Wether it's not being invited to something or having no one to play with at school to being the only one that doesn't have a phone or the latest pair of trainers. It's happens to us all and it's part of growing up.

I don't think anyone can be pin pointed as being to blame.

Fair play to your dd for having the guts to do it but she shouldn't of asked.

The mother shouldn't of really said yes but equally I don't think she would of done if she knew it was going to be a problem. I imagine her trying to convince her own dd but her dd was having none of it. She was wrong to leave it so long to text but equally she could of spent the last few hours trying to sort it with her own dd. Who knows? Unless I've missed that part. But I bet that wasn't an easy text for her to send. What else could she say other than the truth? An excuse wouldn't cover it. She was maybe equally miffed to be taken off guard. Also sleepovers with a bunch of pre teens is stressful! She's probably stressed out now to the absolute max before the sleepover had even started.

Her dd could of been influenced by her friends. She could equally be feeling terrible but felt succumbed to peer pressure.

These are all possibilities but you really don't know what's gone on between the mum and her dd.

Yes but the mum handled it badly and doesn't appear to have set a good example to her daughter.

No doubt she'll be on her in twenty years complaining that she doesn't want to invite her widowed mil/lonely aunt etc for Christmas because she wants to spend it in her pjs with her own little unit.

But it is different because they are adults. You can put on a friendly face around someone you don't particularly get along with or want around you for a few hours.
@bettyfreddy but that's the thing if there was any inclination the girls didn't get on or had to tolerate each others company I would understand. She doesn't not get on with any of them.
And of course I would not want her to go where she's not wanted, it's just such a shame that her friend didn't want her - point taken there could have been a number of reasons, im still annoyed but will let my daughter lead with what happens next, but I won't be going out of my way to encourage the friendship any more. The mum is clearly not someone who I share morals with as I could never be so harsh as to tell someone my kid doesn't want theirs around, without any kind of explanation.

The thing is though, do you really know what goes on? You don't. You say that they all get on but you don't know that. I don't think it's the girls who is having the sleepover that's the issue as if there was any issues between your dd and her then I doubt your dd would want to go. But what about the other girls? Girls talk, girls are bitchy and mean. Could it not of been a case that maybe the other girls didn't want your dd there and this made the girl who was having the sleepover worried?

I'm only saying this as I've had similar with my dd lately for her birthday. She ended up having 3 separate gatherings with her friends because she knew that they wouldn't all get on and it was a worry for her. I said previously though, if she was having her main party this week instead of last - there would absolutely be some girls that wouldn't be invited this time.

I would of just thought that your dd would of been invited if there were no issues. Again that's not me putting your dd down, kids tend to push other kids out for the most ridiculous reasons or they are just plain mean.

I know you think what the mum did was awful, but would it really have been less amoral if she’d allowed your DD to attend knowing the others didn’t want her there?

I get that it’s all really unfortunate but I think the right outcome was reached in the end if the alternative had been your DD was left out and unwelcome had the sleepover mum forced her DD to include her. 12 year olds often aren’t great at preserving the feelings of an outsider to the group.

I think it’s felt like a bigger snub as you’ve invested in their friendship with lifts and hosting and in an ideal world the DDs would be great friends but it doesn’t always work that way sadly. No one’s fault though.

I won't be going out of my way to encourage the friendship any more. The mum is clearly not someone who I share morals with as I could never be so harsh as to tell someone my kid doesn't want theirs around,

But why have you been encouraging the friendship if the other girl never reciprocates?

But your daughter wasn't invited so it was obvious that in this instance her kid didn't want yours around.

Exactly, you have to ask yourself op....what could of been the outcome if the mum had let your dd come? It could of been a very different Mumsnet post where you had to go pick your dd up from a sleepover crying because she wasn't welcome/kids were being mean/felt left out.

I know it looks like I keep standing up for the mum here but I wouldn't want that on my shoulders. Especially when I've got a whole group of them in my house. At the age of 12, you usually let them get on with it and assume they will all get on and have a good time. She cannot babysit them all night and it would be unfair on the mum to carry that burden knowing there's a child in her home that isn't wanted there by a group of other children. If you look at it like this, she's doing the kindest thing for your dd by saving her from a potentially horrible experience.

Very poor manners to be discussing this excitedly with glee in front of uninvited friends. Much poorer than the OP's daughter asking if she could join them. If they are not mature enough to understand common courtesy, they shouldn't be having sleepovers.

@bettyfreddy fair enough, point taken - although I would like to think my kids wouldn't have so little self control that they couldn't help but to be mean and exclude someone that they are friends with. Everyone keeps saying at the point she asked if she could come, she should have known she was not wanted there. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion as an adult if colleagues were speaking about drinks, especially if they were my friends, I would just think / hope I just wasn't around when they were arranging it especially if the people in question have form for last minute / impromptu get togethers.

If you were at work and colleagues were talking about going for a drink after would it be completely rude to say mind if I tag along?

Honestly, I would say this is CF territory. Unless the drinks meetup was being planned spontaneously there n then and was open to everyone, I don't think most people would try to invite themselves.

although I would like to think my kids wouldn't have so little self control that they couldn't help but to be mean and exclude someone that they are friends with.

But your daughter wasn't excluded.

She, along with other friends wasn't invited to this particular thing.

OP, mumsnet is sometimes full of people with no empathy or regard for other people's feelings (aka psychopaths) some of the responses are shocking.

This

There's a big difference between tagging along to a public bar and inviting yourself to sleep the night in somebody else's home!!

If you were at work and colleagues were talking about going for a drink after would it be completely rude to say mind if I tag along?

But this isn't a similar scenario. Assuming they're going to the pub no-one is hosting this. A similar scenario would be colleagues talking about about going to one of their houses for a meal and you saying do you mind if I come too